Talk:tadhana

Tadhana

@Mar vin kaiser Yes I looked at the same dictionary but how will you explain this definition in Vocabulario de la lengua Tagala?

I presume you're looking at JVP's dictionary for the English translation of the Spanish meaning.

Arancel (Tariff). Upa, bayad, o halagang taning at tadhana ng mga puno.

Asignar. Talaga. pc. Tadhana. pc.

How do you make sense of the "to assign" meaning? Do I warn someone in secret? Is it a secret affair?

Of which is why I looked at the Kapampangan dictionary to look for its equivalent if there are more context to it and of course the definition has to be close: But it is close so I think it supplements the Vocabulario de la lengua Tagala definition.

Here's the English translation of Bergano's Vocabulario de la lengua pampango en romance Tagana entry.

TAGANA. Adjective, "a thing set aside for a secret purpose."

To make sense of that with the Tagalog, I added "to set aside for something secret" Talaga now makes sense, since I set aside for something, I assign something, those something are "tinilaga" and also "tinadhana". Tadhana just specifies that it's a secret purpose To link it to the fate definition, it means something like "God's redirection" or whatever His hidden plans after some failure or redirect. Also makes sense of the "tadhana" ng mga puno (leaders) since they allocate tarriffs for secret affairs but they are not the secret affairs themselves.

I think it's a valid move to check the context of the word even though I got more context from Kapampangan, and I think they are used the same way. Ysrael214 (talk) 17:00, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Of course there's still a possibility that I'm wrong but it sounds likely and makes sense for all the other definitions assigned to tadhana Ysrael214 (talk) 17:21, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

@Mar vin kaiser

Also in Tagalog Borrowings and Cognates by Potet

https://books.google.com.ph/books?id=jvOjDAAAQBAJ&pg=PA298&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false

He defined it as "what is secretly in store for someone", which kinda matches what the Kapampangan dictionary said

"in store" is close to "what is set aside" Ysrael214 (talk) 17:55, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

@Ysrael214: I read the original definition in Spanish in Vocabulario, not a translation. But anyway I'll fully read your reply later in the day. --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 00:03, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

@Ysrael214: If you look at Potet's work, the first definition "secret negotiation", the reference given is Vocabulario 1860, so that's obviously the first definition in Vocabulario "secreto de algun negocio que se trata". My interpretation of that Spanish text is "secret about an affair" but yeah it could be "secret regarding some negotiation" or something like that.

The 2nd definition that Potet provides, "what is secretly in store for someone", you see that the reference is ibid or unknown, so it's not from Vocabulario, or else he would've said so. --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 15:48, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

@Mar vin kaiser ibid. doesn't mean unknown, it came from the same place which is Vocabulario de la lengua Tagala 1860 page 331, but it's just too long to say again. Hence, he did say it's from Vocabulario. Ysrael214 (talk) 11:46, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

@Ysrael214: Oh sorry you're right. Thanks for that. But it doesn't make sense. Potet got two definitions of tadhana from Vocabulario. The first one in Potet (secret negotiation) matches the first one in Vocabulario (secreto de algun negocio que se trata), but the second one in Potet (what is secretly in store for someone) doesn't match the second one in Vocabulario (prevenir a alguno de algo en secreto). --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 13:42, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

@Mar vin kaiser

Arancel. Upa, bayad, o halagang taning at tadhana ng mga puno.

Tariff. Rent, payment or a value defined and destined (set) by the leaders"

I looked at dle.rae.es (Diccionario de la lengua española), the source of Wiktionary for Spanish terms and found the following: I thought relying on the English translation alone of the word may distort the context, or the translator is not accurate enough.

prevenir. https://dle.rae.es/prevenir

Sp: 1. tr. Preparar, aparejar y disponer con anticipación lo necesario para un fin.

En: 1. tr. Prepare, prepare and arrange in advance what is necessary for a purpose.

alguno. https://dle.rae.es/alguno

Sp: 7. pron. indef. m. y f. Denota una entidad cuya existencia no se conoce o se pone en duda. U. referido a un sintagma nominal mencionado o sobrentendido, o para aludir a un sintagma pospuesto introducido por la preposición de. Ayer compré bombones, no sé si queda alguno.

En: 7. Pron. indef. m. and f. Denotes an entity whose existence is not known or is in doubt. U. referred to a noun phrase mentioned or understood, or to refer to a postponed phrase introduced by the preposition of. Yesterday I bought chocolates, I don't know if there are any left.

secreto. https://dle.rae.es/secreto

Sp: 1. m. Cosa que cuidadosamente se tiene reservada y oculta.

En: 1m Something that is carefully reserved and hidden.

With that, I come up with this definition that would make sense:

"Prepare anything for something carefully reserved and hidden"

or

"Prepare something for a secret purpose" (purpose based on context)

I think these ones make sense.

Also, yeah, I think Potet focused too much on the "something secret" part than the "prevenir" or "preparing" part. Also, I just found out destine, root of destiny also means assign something for a particular use, which matches its synonym to be Talaga in Vocabulario.

can also be "Destine something for a secret thing" but I'm going with "prepare something for a secret purpose".

Anything other than "warn" because that doesn't make sense. Ysrael214 (talk) 15:08, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

@Ysrael214: Ok, you've convinced me lol. Makes sense. I'll edit the definitions. --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 15:34, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

@Mar vin kaiser Thanks! Ysrael214 (talk) 15:39, 23 September 2022 (UTC)