Talk:several states

RFD discussion: July–November 2017

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several states

i.e. the USA. Seems SoP to me, with a slightly dated sense of "several", i.e. the many, "all of". Note that the Hooven citation says "the several states which are united under and by the Constitution", which is definitely SoP. Equinox ◑ 11:52, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

I always thought this phrase was using the obsolete sense meaning "separate, distinct". It seems SOP to me too. —Granger (talk · contribs) 12:21, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

• Although it originates in archaic usage, the phrase is still in use in modern legislation. See, e.g., 2010, Code of Federal Regulations, p. 377: "The term “operator”— (A) means any person who operates a website located on the Internet or an online service and who collects or maintains personal information from or about the users of or visitors to such website or online service, or on whose behalf such information is collected or maintained, where such website or online service is operated for commercial purposes, including any person offering products or services for sale through that website or online service, involving commerce— (i) among the several States or with 1 or more foreign nations..." bd2412 T 19:37, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

If it is used as a set phrase in legal contexts, I vote keep. It is far from obvious from the parts that "the several States" means all the states of the USA, in my opinion. You quote also highlights a capitalisation question: "several states" versus "several States". Mihia (talk) 22:04, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

"States" is typically capitalized in modern references to the "several States" in legislation. bd2412 T 03:12, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

Delete as SoP. — SGconlaw (talk) 19:41, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

Keep per Mihia. --Hekaheka (talk) 06:31, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

Keep per above. Andrew Sheedy (talk) 01:51, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

• Leaning keep, as it continues to be used as a formalism. bd2412 T 02:33, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
  • The more I think about it, the more I think that this should be moved to the several states; the meaning is contingent on the "the". bd2412 T 20:08, 30 September 2017 (UTC)
    • Just to muddy the waters further: you can use any determiner with definite reference compatible with a plural predicate. For example, "these several states", "those several states", "such several states", "her several states", even "any several states". Another complication is the use by the Confederacy and its apologists to refer to both the USA and the CSA in different contexts. Chuck Entz (talk) 22:29, 30 September 2017 (UTC)
    • Also, one can find references to "the/her several kingdoms", "the several states of Europe", "the several countries" "her several institutions", etc. It seems to be used to emphasize the separateness of members of a group. Chuck Entz (talk) 22:47, 30 September 2017 (UTC)
    • Then there's "the several persons" and "the several acts", which show a similar use of several in legal contexts. Chuck Entz (talk) 22:52, 30 September 2017 (UTC)
• Keep: Purplebackpack89 01:19, 3 August 2017 (UTC)
• Keep, mostly due to capitalisation issues. I just looked up if "the States" was supposed to be capitalised or not, but when combined with several it doesn't have to be? Confusing enough for me. W3ird N3rd (talk) 16:11, 10 August 2017 (UTC)
• Now that I think of it, this has been referenced in w:Gravity Falls, a show for kids:

As president of these several United States, I hereby order you to pretend none of this ever happened.

As said by a president who had been frozen for over a hundred years and is woken up in that episode. This is from the subtitles, I don't know what he literally said because I saw the Dutch version. Only now that I see this Wiktionary entry did I figure he probably said something like "several states". W3ird N3rd (talk) 16:43, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

Delete. Totally SOP. Just refers to the several states that make up the United States, in a context in which it is clear that it is not referring to Mexican states or any other states. --WikiTiki89 18:05, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

Delete. --Barytonesis (talk) 14:57, 30 September 2017 (UTC)

Keep. Some English speakers clearly need an article to understand the phrase: [1]. It uses an obsolete sense of several. — TAKASUGI Shinji (talk) 04:53, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

• RFD kept: no consensus for deletion. --Dan Polansky (talk) 15:31, 17 November 2017 (UTC)