Talk:sacramental

RFV

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What does "In the Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican, and Lutheran churches, an object whose supernatural effects, unlike those of a sacrament, depend on the belief of the recipient." mean? I don't know where to begin to look for attestation; perhaps three cites of the noun sense will clarify for this sense or cause us to modify the definition.--Prosfilaes (talk) 01:27, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

If you search for "sacramentals", it narrows things down to the noun, though I can't say how many of the books are using this noun / this sense. I've added one book, which only mentions the term at first (in the excerpt I added), but has a lengthy theological explanation of sacramentals, without ever giving examples of what a sacramental would be (a crucifix? holy water?). - -sche (discuss) 01:52, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Oh, but w:Sacramentals explains that my guesses are correct, holy water and crosses are typical sacramentals. Now, whether or not we should prune/clarify the definition... - -sche (discuss) 01:53, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

I'm adding citations to Citations:sacramental. - -sche (discuss) 02:27, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Note my changes to the entry. I think the citations support the sense as I've reworded it. - -sche (discuss) 02:47, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Both old and new definition seem overly specific relative to, say, sacramental wine. Webster 1913 had "That which relates to a sacrament. Bp. Morton." DCDuring TALK 09:38, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

"That which relates to a sacrament" is approximately how we define the adjective. This RFV is about the noun, so...not phrases like "sacramental wine" so much as phrases like "holy water and making the sign of the cross are sacramentals". - -sche (discuss) 18:12, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

RFV-passed. - -sche (discuss) 18:45, 6 June 2012 (UTC)