Talk:running water

RFV discussion: March 2019

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running water

Rfv-sense: Water available from taps. I have never heard this. I would say running water is just water that is moving. DTLHS (talk) 22:51, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

That's a common one. Just Google "hot and cold running water". DonnanZ (talk) 22:58, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

We're certainly missing a sense for running + water. But https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/running-water offers the same type of sense, so it seems relatively citable and while not perfectly distinct from running + water, it is at least somewhat more specific than that.--Prosfilaes (talk) 23:37, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

It's the convenience of having water provided via pipes and plumbing, a service. For instance, in many developing countries, in remote areas, they may not have running water (water provided by a water company or some other system of supply). That's pretty distinct from just running + water (water that's running) Leasnam (talk) 23:42, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

Maybe it's just UK English? Per utramque cavernam 23:47, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

More likely Commonwealth English, I'm sure it's used in NZ. It's in Oxford too. DonnanZ (talk) 23:56, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

I have also heard it in the US. I think it's pretty common everywhere. Kiwima (talk) 00:04, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

Yeah, it's a fairly common sense everywhere in my experience, even in (some) other languages, e.g. German fließend Wasser. Leasnam's example is particularly useful, because the areas may well have water running through streams or rivers, but not have "running water", as in this example:

• 2004, Mona D. Sizer, Texas Disasters: Wind, Flood, and Fire, Taylor Trade Publications (→ISBN), page 183:

  In sight of the river, their factories' source for water, they often live without running water and electricity. Because [...] the river becomes polluted with industrial wastewater as well as untreated, raw sewage.

The river is still running (although the surrounding paragraphs establish that its flow has been reduced), it's just not safe/potable and can't be piped into the people's houses for them to drink, so it's not "running water". I've put several more citations like that at Citations:running water. - -sche (discuss) 00:19, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

If water, whether or not potable, is piped in from a well, a rain barrel, a water company, or a governmental provider and dispensed from a water fountain, isn't it still running water? Wouldn't water continuously flowing at a low rate from a water fountain also be running water? I'm not sure about water from an inverted bottle in a dispenser. I don't see how the technology of a tap/faucet/valve is essential to the wording of the definition, though it is typical. DCDuring (talk) 00:42, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

Yes, all those you mention can be considered running water--it's water that's dispensable, usually from a tap, at one's disposal to be used as needed. I wonder if there might be two distinct senses of running water as well: one referring to the capability of having it (the set-up/system/infrastructure); and two, whether that service is actually turned on/functioning. For instance, if I move into a new apartment that is equipped with "running water" but the water is not turned on yet, I have running water₁ but I don't actually have running water₂ till it's turned on. It seems analogous to having electric service vs. having electricity (juice). Leasnam (talk) 01:43, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

In the analogous cases we have

power "Electricity or a supply of electricity."

electricity "Electric power/energy as used in homes etc., supplied by power stations or generators."

gas "A flammable gaseous hydrocarbon or hydrocarbon mixture (typically predominantly methane) used as a fuel, e.g. for cooking, heating, electricity generation or as a fuel in internal combustion engines in vehicles."

water [No comparable definition]

heat "Heating system; a system that raises the temperature of a room or building."

hot water [No comparable definition]

propane [Chemical definition only]

oil/fuel oil

None of these convey the idea of potential delivery (a physical connection and/or an account) vs. actual delivery.

In my everyday experience power, electricity, heat, and hot water are used to mean functioning delivery of the service. Gas is used in contrast to (fuel) oil (or electricity, propane, solar or heat pump etc.) as source of heating.

So, such terms can be used to refer to physical hookup, a functional account, a working system, or the particular product or service. For some of these terms not all of these apply, eg, propane.

Do we want explicit definitions for all this? Or should we just rely on people's ability to understand metonomy and ellipsis? Other dictionaries seem to rely on people's understanding of metonomy and ellipsis, but we occasionally seem to depart from that practice. DCDuring (talk) 04:06, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

Thanks, now that I've seen examples it seems perfectly natural. I guess I was thrown off by the infrastructural aspect- one would never say "Get me a glass of running water". DTLHS (talk) 04:26, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

Yes, it's rather dated - but to us old fogies, it is a perfectly good term. SemperBlotto (talk) 05:47, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

I sometimes have an air lock in a water pipe, and don't have running water out of one tap, a problem I have to solve. I don't think anyone mentioned tank water as a source of running water; when I was young we had this, rainwater off the roof ran into the water tanks. DonnanZ (talk) 10:40, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

I tried to capture that with "rain barrel" (3/3/2019 00:42).

I guess that if water under pressure (possibly through gravity as in low-rise buildings in New York City) is available, that's running water. If water is captured in a well, pond, or barrel and is not available through pipes, it is not running water.

I think that, in rural settings or when discussing land under residential development, one might still use running water to refer to the availability of piped water to a given lot or a larger area. It might be useful for a real-estate salesman to say running water to differentiate from standing water that might eventually "stand" in a buyer's basement. DCDuring (talk) 14:36, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

A rain barrel may be OK for watering the garden, but is hardly suitable for a family house not on town supply; we did run out of water on occasion when there was a drought, and Dad had to call the water tanker out. That problem was solved by building a larger tank, the more storage capacity you have the less likely you are to run out of water, which is the principle of reservoirs of course. The groundwater from the well we also had was full of iron and unsuitable for household use. DonnanZ (talk) 16:32, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

RFV-passed Kiwima (talk) 19:05, 10 March 2019 (UTC)