Talk:railway line
Add topicLatest comment: 9 years ago by -sche in topic RFV discussion: December 2014–March 2015
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Sense 1: A rail is a rail, two parallel rails are needed in a railway line. I don't think that monorails are called railway lines either, just in case someone comes up with that argument. Donnanz (talk) 17:43, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
- I'm more confused about the other senses. To me, a railway line doesn't necessarily need two or more tracks, nor is there any distinction in meaning between having one track or several. The distinguishing part, for me, is that a railway line connects two or more places together. This is different from a railway track in that the latter generally refers to the physical track, without referring to its end points. —CodeCat 18:20, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
- I agree with both of you. A line has to connect two places, if it doesn't (like if it's in a massive warehouse) it's just track. But I think there are two possible meanings, the physical track itself ("leaves on the line") and the route ("a new proposed line between Boston and New York"). Renard Migrant (talk) 18:44, 29 December 2014 (UTC).
- The two terms can be synonymous. A railway track could be just a siding, or a single-track railway line linking several places. I live between two double-track railway lines which carry trains in and out of London Waterloo. Further away there are four-track railway lines in Surrey (Clapham Junction-Woking) and between London Paddington and Slough (and Reading I think). Each four-track railway line has four railway lines or tracks. I thought I explained it reasonably well in sense 3, it's only sense one I'm querying. Donnanz (talk) 19:04, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
- To me, if one "pulls up the old railway/railroad tracks", that might mean only removing the rails and possibly any other salvageable components, but normally railway/railroad track would include the ties/sleepers, if any, and track bed, possibly the right of way too. A railway/railroad line necessarily includes track, but is basically a route, as was said above. In addition, in the US, at least in the 19th and most of the 20th centuries, railway/railroad line could also refer to the company that owned a railway line that served a route or the entire system of branches and possibly other "lines", eg, the (Rock Island line (common name of the Chicago, Rock Island and Pacific Railroad and the title of a once-popular song).
- Other dictionaries have the "track-and-roadbed" sense for railway line.
- But what I'd like to know is how the industry survived without terminological clarity. Such confusion is no way to run a railroad[1]. DCDuring TALK 19:44, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
- There are wild variations in railway terminology between the US and UK, but I don't think a professional railwayman would call a single rail, even if it's CWR (continuous long welded) a railway line, wherever he is. Maybe the media does, but they're usually only a bunch of amateurs when it comes to railway matters. Donnanz (talk) 21:38, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
- English isn't only used by specialists though. You don't need a PhD in physics to use the word 'temperature' for example. I don't see why a single-rail track couldn't be considered a line as long as it is a medium for trains to transport themselves from A to B. What about in Japan? English can be used about places where English isn't habitually spoken. Renard Migrant (talk) 21:41, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
- Though looking back that's not what's being disputed, as interesting as the debate is. Renard Migrant (talk) 21:43, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
- Often an RfV or RfD draws needed attention to an entry. So it is a good opportunity to do some cleanup. Also, I'm often reminded of possible missing colloquial entries, like no/any/helluva way to run a railroad, in the course of these discussions. If we put the non-RfV content in a different or smaller typeface, it might make clearer what was the main thread and what was peripheral. But do we really have to? DCDuring TALK 21:56, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
- I was trying to leave monorails out of this debate, as the rail is (usually) actually a beam. See National Motor Museum Monorail. Donnanz (talk) 22:06, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
- I might as well add monorail cat to WT:LOP. Renard Migrant (talk) 22:10, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
- The name monorail was correct when it was first invented, but with the evolution of the species has become a semi-misnomer - not a protologism in the sense of that word. Donnanz (talk) 10:15, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
- No, protologism means it isn't used. You're arguing about whether what they currently use is a rail or not. I say it is, because trains are running on it. Renard Migrant (talk) 21:59, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
- A monorail is a means of transport, not a rail. The term has been in existence for a century or so. As I said in the beginning, a rail is a rail, so when does it become a beam? Donnanz (talk) 11:08, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
- No, protologism means it isn't used. You're arguing about whether what they currently use is a rail or not. I say it is, because trains are running on it. Renard Migrant (talk) 21:59, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
- The name monorail was correct when it was first invented, but with the evolution of the species has become a semi-misnomer - not a protologism in the sense of that word. Donnanz (talk) 10:15, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
- I might as well add monorail cat to WT:LOP. Renard Migrant (talk) 22:10, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
- I was trying to leave monorails out of this debate, as the rail is (usually) actually a beam. See National Motor Museum Monorail. Donnanz (talk) 22:06, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
- Often an RfV or RfD draws needed attention to an entry. So it is a good opportunity to do some cleanup. Also, I'm often reminded of possible missing colloquial entries, like no/any/helluva way to run a railroad, in the course of these discussions. If we put the non-RfV content in a different or smaller typeface, it might make clearer what was the main thread and what was peripheral. But do we really have to? DCDuring TALK 21:56, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
- Though looking back that's not what's being disputed, as interesting as the debate is. Renard Migrant (talk) 21:43, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
- English isn't only used by specialists though. You don't need a PhD in physics to use the word 'temperature' for example. I don't see why a single-rail track couldn't be considered a line as long as it is a medium for trains to transport themselves from A to B. What about in Japan? English can be used about places where English isn't habitually spoken. Renard Migrant (talk) 21:41, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
- There are wild variations in railway terminology between the US and UK, but I don't think a professional railwayman would call a single rail, even if it's CWR (continuous long welded) a railway line, wherever he is. Maybe the media does, but they're usually only a bunch of amateurs when it comes to railway matters. Donnanz (talk) 21:38, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
- The two terms can be synonymous. A railway track could be just a siding, or a single-track railway line linking several places. I live between two double-track railway lines which carry trains in and out of London Waterloo. Further away there are four-track railway lines in Surrey (Clapham Junction-Woking) and between London Paddington and Slough (and Reading I think). Each four-track railway line has four railway lines or tracks. I thought I explained it reasonably well in sense 3, it's only sense one I'm querying. Donnanz (talk) 19:04, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
- I agree with both of you. A line has to connect two places, if it doesn't (like if it's in a massive warehouse) it's just track. But I think there are two possible meanings, the physical track itself ("leaves on the line") and the route ("a new proposed line between Boston and New York"). Renard Migrant (talk) 18:44, 29 December 2014 (UTC).
- RFV-failed. Plenty of citations refer to e.g. using mines to blow up or warp a railway line, where railway line clearly refers to a small section of the physical track rather than e.g. the abstract route — but more likely the entire track of however many rails (usually two, but if the mine/bomb was placed at a junction, then potentially three or four), rather than just one rail. - -sche (discuss) 20:38, 6 March 2015 (UTC)