Talk:n'est

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n'est

I find including n'est, along with qu'il and (possibly but probably not) s'il, somewhat strange. In the case of n'est it is just ne (or more correctly n') and est, but is incredibly common due the large usage of both words. If we pass this, would other regularly-formed French contractions be valid, like d'avoir, l'abricot, m'aperçut or s'arrêter? --Keene 12:56, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

n'est, qu'il, and s'il are as valid as isn't and aren't. I think d'avoir would be useful, as would s'arrêter, but not l'... or m'.... —Stephen 14:38, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

I believe you're mistaken. The words "isn't" and "aren't" are contractions of "is not" and "are not", and either the contracted or the full form maybe used. "N'est" is an example of the elision of "ne" before a vowel. It is not a contraction of "ne est", as this form does not exist. The vowel in "ne" is always elided before a vowel or an h muet, so (warning: slippery-slope argument) including "n'est" requires we include n'a, n'élève, n'habille, n'ira, n'osait, n'unifie, and so on for every verb form in French beginning with a vowel or h muet. Commonality is no argument for inclusion - which of the above are common and which aren't?

The same argument applies to "de"; the articles and pronouns "le" and "la"; "me"; "te"; "que"; and no doubt some others I've overlooked.

"Se" is different because it is part of the infinitive of reflexive verbs. "S'arrêter" and "arrêter" are distinct.

"Si" (if) + "il" becomes s'il, but this is the only time it is elided, I believe; there is no "s'elle".

So, n'est, qu'il should go because they are merely examples, but s'il should stay because it is a special case. Similarly, c'est can stay.

Note that we might argue in favour of having "n'est-ce" (as in "n'est-ce pas") and "qu'est-ce" (as in "qu'est-ce que c'est") because the apostrophes and hyphens make these look like words in their own right, but they do not exist alone and so do not merit entries.

Please also remember that the argument that "users might look them up" is not part of WS:CFI. Delete — Paul G 12:06, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Strong keep, due to it's ubiquitous presence in the French language. Makes it simply incomparable to l'abricot and the like. bd2412 T 18:14, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

I see two good opinions here...what is the verdict? - [The]DaveRoss 22:38, 1 May 2008 (UTC)