Talk:mnieħer

Plural form?

The article contains the text:

"mnieħer m (plural mneħrijiet)"

Neither {Joseph Aquilina, Concise Maltese English English Maltese Dictionary, MidseaBooksLtd, 2006, →ISBN} nor {Emanuel Cassar, Dictionary Dizzjunarju Maltese-English English-Maltese, Colour Image Ltd, 1998, →ISBN} give the plural form mneħrijiet but both do give the plural form mniħrijiet.

I did, however, come across mneħrijiet twice, to wit: on http://www.kunsilltalmalti.gov.mt/mistoqsijiet?id=50 and on https://ec.europa.eu/translation/maltese/magazine/documents/laccent_16_mt.pdf. Both sources add an asterisk in front of mneħrijiet, which is a common indication of either an unattested and/or ungrammatical form.

Neither of the dictionaries gives any indication of unattestedness or ungrammaticality of the form mniħrijiet. This same form is also reported in https://publications.lib.chalmers.se/records/fulltext/185320/185320.pdf as coming from a Resource Grammar Library, and it is discussed on page 15 in https://issuu.com/wwwacn/docs/il-le_en_-_il-_add__14_ta__marzu_2021 and on page 15 in https://issuu.com/wwwacn/docs/il-le_en_lulju_12_2020 as well, together with the (plural) form mneħrin. The form mniħrijiet furthermore occurs on page 120 in https://data.consilium.europa.eu/doc/document/ST-16396-2011-ADD-13/mt/pdf.

Finally, on page 86 in https://www.um.edu.mt/library/oar/bitstream/123456789/60402/1/G%C4%A7all-kitba%20tajba%20tal-Malti.pdf (which is also in https://www.um.edu.mt/library/oar/bitstream/123456789/60398/1/Il-Malti%201971%2047%283%29.PDF) the form mnħur is mentioned for the plural while disapproving of mniħrijiet.

While these sources may not justify removing mneħrijiet as a legitimate plural form, the addition of at least mniħrijiet as a plural form certainly seems justified.

Does anyone have any additional arguments to add?Redav (talk) 14:12, 4 July 2021 (UTC)

@Redav I've added it. In Maltese you say "their nose" for "their noses", and "the nose of many people", etc. So a plural is only needed in rare contexts, for example when you want to say "there are big noses and small noses", or something like that. In this case speakers may add the default plural ending -ijiet to the word. When this is done, the stress moves away from the first syllable and -ie-, which is always stressed, turns into either -e- or -i-. The same variation exists in the possessive forms: for "her nose" you'll find "mneħirha" and somewhat less often "mniħirha". This question of e or i really shouldn't bother you too much. It's a general variation that exists in many words with an underlying ie that becomes unstressed when the stress moves forward. 178.4.151.17 19:06, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

PS: I'll translate to you the first source that you mentioned, because it actually shows that the form is justified: M'għandniex xi ngħidu, jekk ikollna sitwazzjoni rari fejn irridu bilfors nirreferu għal ħafna, allura jkollna "niżviluppaw" plural minn elementi magħrufa, ngħidu aħna *mneħrijiet. ("Of course, if there is a rare situation where we have to refer to a plural number, we must "develop" a plural from familiar elements, for example *mneħrijiet".) So here Aquilina places the atterisk to show that the form is an ad-hoc formation, not that it is wrong. 178.4.151.17 19:13, 29 November 2021 (UTC)