Talk:masculism

Definition controversy

Connel MacKenzie believes that the word masculism is politically synonymous with the word feminism. The definition given by Connel MacKenzie sounds synonymous to feminism, and does not conform to the Wikipedia article, so I had to revert that edit. The words masculism and feminism are not meant to be synonymous with each other. Only a feminist believes that if women ruled the world everyone would be happy. Actually, masculism is the ideological flipside of feminism. Feminism supports the equality of women with men but not vice versa. Feminism is unilateral, but masculism is not. Feminism blames one sex for the predicament we find ourselves in, but masculism does not. Tedius Zanarukando 20:00, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

lol, feminism is the belief of equality between the sexes. women's rights cannot truly be equal to men, if men's aren't equal to women. masculism is purely a movement for the right's of men, but mostly one which supports the status-quo of patriarchy and is a de-facto or at times blatant supremacist movement (e.g. men who moan for equal rights in abortion and violation of a woman's bodily rights, when it's only women who give birth). — This unsigned comment was added by 86.161.246.43 (talk). in this edit

Masculism is about engaging the inequalities that men face in our society today. To compare it to Fascism is really a stretch. Why is it today, that you either support feminism or you're a misogynist? — This unsigned comment was added by 24.68.198.12 (talk). [1]

Wiktionary:Requests for verification

Kept. See archived discussion of February 2008. 07:17, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Well, the word was kept... but the sense failed. I've posted the discussion, below. - -sche (discuss) 22:11, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

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masculism

"A social theory or political movement supporting the equality of both genders with each other in all aspects of public and private life." Doesn't correspond to any usage I've heard or could easily find. -- Visviva 04:47, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Sense removed. Atelaes 07:13, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Concerns about the definition

This definition is Biased and incorrect. Why would the Wiktionary allow biased and incorrect definitions to be displayed here? Who knows... It's kinda sad actually. People think that masculism is the belief in a superiority in the male gender when, like, Feminism, it is a movement against male discrimination. Whoever wrote this definition did not do their homework. I'd like this changed please. — This unsigned comment was added by 156.154.42.132 (talk) at 23:01, 16 March 2010. (moved from the page's history. The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 07:17, 6 July 2010 (UTC))

I don't know if I should have waited for someone else, but I edited it, and now the definition is more faithful, and similar to what Wikipedia itself portrays. — This unsigned comment was added by 187.15.187.236 (talk). in these edits

With respect, I wouldn't trust Wikipedia as far as I can throw my dining room table. Mglovesfun (talk) 23:54, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, but I you don't trust a wiki project, why are you using it ? The article is adequately sourced and you can easily find the common denominator between masculinists if you look at their ideology. It is somehow analogous to feminism and its meaning is separate from Machismo/Male Chauvinism which is the counterpart to Femism/Marianism. You can't bend the meaning of words based on what you want them to mean, pal.

No, it is you who are basing definitions on what you want them to mean: we are going on pure usage. Some people do use it in a neutral sense, but many don't. Look at the 2004 citation in our entry: ‘The Rocky-Rambo syndrome puts on display the raw masculism which is at the bottom of conservative socialization and ideology.’ Clearly, here it is being used in a sense analogous with machismo. That is far from uncommon. Ƿidsiþ 07:47, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Please refrain from using feminist sources & feminist propaganda to define masculism/masculinism. It is like using nazistic sources & nazistic propaganda to define the Jews. Please do not abuse the fact that the masculist movement is very young and therefore there are very few reliable "sources". - signed, a Masculist — This unsigned comment was added by 91.141.83.199 (talk). in this edit

related RFV

See also the related RFV at Talk:masculinism. - -sche (discuss) 22:18, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

Number of defs

In my opinion we have too many attempts to split meanings here. I think senses 1-3 should be combined and the definition made a little broader, along the lines of "The promotion of men or of male attributes and values, especially when seen as being detrimental to women; machismo; anti-feminism." Sense 4 is definitely distinct. Ƿidsiþ 11:49, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

RFV

The following discussion has been moved from Wiktionary:Requests for verification.

This discussion is no longer live and is left here as an archive. Please do not modify this conversation, but feel free to discuss its conclusions.

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In 2008, the sense "political movement supporting the equality of both genders" failed RFV. Thereafter, the entry had the definition "advocacy of the rights of men or promotion of values which are typically male; machismo; anti-feminism". Today, an editor split that into three senses:

1. Support for male domination of women, for patriarchy; opposition to equality for women; anti-feminism.
2. Promotion of values which are seen to be typically male; machismo.
3. Advocacy of equality for men.

What new citations have become available since 2008? The first sense has two citations already and only needs one more, the second needs two. (If they can't be attested separately, they can be recombined.) The last sense has one citation below it, but I'm not sure the citation supports the sense. - -sche (discuss) 04:28, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Oh, and there are several citations I wasn't sure of the sense of. - -sche (discuss) 04:29, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

I've cited the first sense, IMO. - -sche (discuss) 04:38, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Removed unattested senses, moving cites to the Citations: namespace till attested. ~ Röbin Liönheart (talk) 02:34, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

Missing definition

Apparently there's been some trouble with this page in the past, which I didn't really look into before adding the definition:

1. A doctrine or movement advocating equal rights for men in areas of perceived inequality.

Now we've all probably heard it used like this and, based on the model of feminism, it's clearly the most obvious meaning, but for whatever reason it failed an RFV at some point. I won't claim to know exactly how all the behind-the-scenes stuff works on wiktionary - I usually just fix the odd thing or two when I notice something wrong or missing - but from what I gather we need to find some examples of the word being used with that definition. So, I googled the term, but - the Internet being as it is - most of what shows up is related to some movement to spam it as a tag on twitter; the only results I could see using it this way were in definitions from other dictionaries/encyclopaedias, which doesn't quite qualify as an example of use, so if anyone can help find some citable examples of use then we can add the definition back in and everything will be dandy.

I'll keep my eyes peeled for it, but it's a pretty rare word (to the extent that my Oxford hard-copy doesn't even list it) so chances are I won't see it; maybe I'll do a good search around for it when I'm bored but if anyone else can help with it, that'd be much appreciated. D4g0thur (talk) 12:35, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Per our criteria for inclusion, what we need are three uses in permanently recorded media, conveying meaning, in at least three independent instances spanning at least a year. Good news: Citations:masculism already has two uses from 1994. We just need a third at least a year separated. ~ Röbin Liönheart (talk) 19:44, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

RFV discussion: July–August 2015

This entry has survived Wiktionary's verification process (permalink).

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masculism

RFV-sense "Advocacy of the rights or needs of men." This sense (variously worded) has failed RFV before, but the last RFV was two years ago, and the citations page already has two citations of the sense, and the topic of masculism is oft-discussed, so it seems reasonable to have a new inquiry into whether or not a third citation has come into existence. (But feel free to remove the sense pending a successful outcome of this RFV.) The wording of the sense is open to improvement; see Talk:masculism, where the wording "a doctrine or movement advocating equal rights for men in areas of perceived inequality" is proposed. PS I wonder if Meninism/meninism is citable, and given the apparent allusion to Leninism, I wonder if it was originally coined as a joke or pejorative. - -sche (discuss) 18:47, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

Most of what I find is references to the use of the term within the Men's Rights movement, such as [this] -- but Google books doesn't have any sources of that literature, which I suspect is mostly on blogs and such. I did find [this], [this], [this], [this], and possibly [this]. In addition, the [OED] includes that definition, and references a quote in the Sydney Bulletin. Kiwima (talk) 00:29, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

@Sche - Meninism was created by simply grafting "men" onto feminism. Which, obviously, doesn't make sense from an etymological standpoint. I believe it was originally coined by an MRA to describe the men's rights movement/philosophy, but it got picked up by feminist bloggers, who used it in a joking way to highlight how out-of-touch they see MRAs as being. -Cloudcuckoolander (talk) 01:54, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

Based on the two citations in the entry and the 1927 citation on the Citations page, is this cited? I can't make heads or tails of the Hoogensen citation, btw. - -sche (discuss) 07:32, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

I think the two citations in the entry and the 1927 citation on the Citations page are adequate. —Mr. Granger (talk • contribs) 08:49, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

RFV-passed, just barely. The 1927 citation has a somewhat different tone from the later citations which are under the same sense, and seems to bleed into the second sense's territory ("anti-feminism"). - -sche (discuss) 21:02, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

masculism / feminism

Why is there such disparity between the coordinate terms 'masculism' and 'feminism'?
If 'masculism' has a definition of "sexism in favor of men", why doesn't 'feminism' have a definition of "sexism in favor of women"?