Talk:mặt

bản mặt

I'm wondering whether to add bản mặt (“face (derogatory)”) as a compound or just bản as a classifier.PhanAnh123 (talk) 14:42, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

@PhanAnh123: From what I've seen I've seen in the dictionaries (some paper dictionaries digitized online, Soha Tra từ), bản mặt is derogatory (coi thường, coi khinh). I don't know why it is added in dictionaries, but I think that could be enough to add the entry of bản mặt? HungKhanh0106 (talk) 08:57, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

Also in the entry bản, I see that one of the sections marks bản as a classifier, defined as "(derogatory) Indicates certain body parts" (presumably added by yourself in revision 68465310). Can you please clarify what body parts that is classified by it? From a cursory search I just find body parts that is bản họng, bản mặt, bản thân (which I just took all of them from here). HungKhanh0106 (talk) 14:20, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

mặt and mắt

@PhanAnh123: What exactly caused PV *mat to split into modern Vietnamese mắt and mặt, terms with different tones? Billcipher123 (talk) 11:13, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

The convenient explanation is that one of the terms was prefixed; the weird thing in that case is though, mặt should be a regular development of the monosyllabic root and mắt the prefixed one (with a voiceless presyllable), yet it's mắt that bears the more primary meaning "eye". In every other Vietic language, "eye" and "face" are homophonous and bear D2, the lower register tone. If I'm allowed to go haywire, Proto-Viet-Muong had only one term (*mat) meaning both "eye" and "face" (same as the current state in Muong lects and other Vietic languages); Proto-Vietnamese *mat^D was frequently preceded by the ancestor of con (the classifier) when speakers need to clarify that they meant "eye" and not "face", since *kɔn^A started (and still starts) with a voiceless initial, the adjacent *mat^D acquired to D1 when the tone split happened. The lone *mat^D, meaning "face" when not preceded by *kɔn^A, thus regularly acquired D2 and became today's mặt.

Of course: don't take this seriously. PhanAnh123 (talk) 12:18, 7 January 2025 (UTC)