Talk:knurd

RFV discussion: July–December 2016

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knurd

English by User:Philmonte101, entered as "Alternative form of nerd". Attested? --Dan Polansky (talk) 11:04, 31 July 2016 (UTC)

Yes! It certainly does have attestation as being a folk etymology of the word. See books, and look through it some more. Philmonte101 (talk) 11:26, 31 July 2016 (UTC)

Please read WT:ATTEST: the word need to be in use, not just mentioned in an etymology. --Dan Polansky (talk) 11:27, 31 July 2016 (UTC)

1. "The other origin tale is that “nerd” beganasajoke: the original spelling was “knurd,” or “drunk” spelled backward." [1]
2. "Others believe nerd comes from 'nurd,' which began as 'knurd'." [2]
3. "Some at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute claim that they coined the word knurd in the '50s to describe kids who studied all the time (knurd being drunk spelled backward)." [3]

As for this definition, I rest my case with that.

I also overlooked this as it seems, but the term "knurd" seems to actually be used quite a bit as a way to signify that someone is drunk, or as a derogatory nickname/term of abuse, as follows:

1. "He is, as we are told, someone who had the misfortune of being born knurd. “Knurd" is drunk spelled backward, and it's the opposite of drunk. Sobriety is merely the absence of drunkenness; knurd is its opposite." [4]
2. "Me, I like the term "knurd," which, you will deduce, is "drunk" spelled backwards. Shades of Serutan! "Knurd" has a nice sound, something like the dull thunk of a partly deflated basketball bounced against a wall. So now I'm a recovering knurd, [...]" [5]
3. "“How much do I want to bet the young man will be a straightlaced knurd?” Isabel chimed as she thought about the prospective house guest she'll be waiting on this summer. She used the derogatory term “knurd” she'd learned back in England from Lady Chatterly's friends who attended the school of Eton. It was "drunk" spelled backward to refer to someone who was more interested in his studies and grades than partying and enjoying alcohol after classes." [6]

See, Dan, just because a term is almost always used to refer to its (folk) definition or to a folk etymology doesn't mean it isn't attestable. WT:BRAND, for example, only talks about brands. Just because the sources altogether are talking about one general concept, it is still a thing, and keep in mind that the word is not just coming from one source or sources that were made by the same person/group. See the titles: Senator Joseph McCarthy and Lady Chatterley, Computer Factoids: Tales from the High-tech Underbelly, If Only My Wife Could Drink Like a Lady, etc. These books were not even all published by the same company, or written by the same authors. So yes, it meets WT:ATTEST. Also, the term was used throughout over 10 years. Where did this argument of non-attestation even come from? Philmonte101 (talk) 11:39, 31 July 2016 (UTC)

So yes, it is in use, since it's been used in various years. Philmonte101 (talk) 11:42, 31 July 2016 (UTC)

'the original spelling was “knurd,”' is an exemplary mention rather than use. From quick skimming the other examples, they are mentions as well. But enough from me; let other editors comment. --Dan Polansky (talk) 11:50, 31 July 2016 (UTC)

It is true that some of the nerd ones are being just mentioned. However, the ones referring to drunkenness itself usually have the formula of "Bla bla bla bla is a knurd. "Knurd" is drunk spelled backwards. Bla bla bla bla bla knurd bla bla bla bla bla.". So those are like the combination of a mention and a usage. Anyway, agreed, let's let some others comment as well. Philmonte101 (talk) 12:13, 31 July 2016 (UTC)

IMHO, the quotation "How much do I want to bet the young man will be a straightlaced knurd?" is a solid use of this sense. "So now I'm a recovering knurd" is also a solid use, but I'm not sure whether it's of this sense or another sense. "Knurd is its opposite" seems like a mention to me, and the other three quotations above are clearly mentions. —Mr. Granger (talk • contribs) 15:23, 31 July 2016 (UTC)

• I've added some citations that are definitely uses, not mentions. Smurrayinchester (talk) 07:57, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
  • Thanks. "Alternative form of nerd" is cited. --Dan Polansky (talk) 12:53, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
• rfv-sense: adjective: Sober, especially to a perceived extremity: I am expanding the nomination based on a new sense added during the duration of the nomination. --Dan Polansky (talk) 12:53, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

• Look in Citations:knurd. I've added them there, since I don't know how to cite newspapers and Usenets. It is attested. Philmonte101 (talk) 13:02, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
• Also, though the difference between mention and use make almost no difference to me in words like these, look further in Usenet for "knurd", and you'll find a few more citations for this sense. That is, if those 3 citations I listed can't back this up. Trust me on this, it is real and attested, but just barely. Philmonte101 (talk) 13:06, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

Of the three quotes for the adjective sense currently on the citations page, the first is a use, but the second and third are mentions. —Mr. Granger (talk • contribs) 13:35, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

• RFV passed on alt form of nerd; RFV failed on sober. --Dan Polansky (talk) 13:00, 4 December 2016 (UTC)