Talk:hinuha

Hinuha vs Hinguha

@Ysrael214 The words "hinuha" and "hinguha" have separate entries and separate definitions in all modern dictionaries. Any reason why you're putting them together? Mar vin kaiser (talk) 12:58, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

@Mar vin kaiser They're the same word. All three forms (himoha, hingoha, hinoha) are found in Vocabulario de la lengua Tagala and having the same meaning. Also tinig was formerly tingig. The two separate pronunciation probably diverged in use but their meanings are close enough or based from the original meaning. Inference/deduction is after all can be listening to someone then decide what they're saying is true or not. Besides diksiyonaryo.ph, the UP Diksiyonaryong Pilipino, what dictionary shows the meaning of both words differently? Ysrael214 (talk) 13:23, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

@Ysrael214: Panganiban's dictionary. I'll do more research on this, and despite them originally being the same word, there may be reason to split the two as doublets. --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 13:27, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

@Ysrael214: I split the two. Reasons being:

1. The definitions of "inference" associated with "hinuha" not found in Vocabulario.
2. No dictionary connects the word "hinuha" with the definition shown in "hinguha".
3. Split between "hinuha" and "hinguha" found in Panganiban's and Diksionaryo.
4. No source explicitly mentions the etymology of "hinuha", so we can suggest or surmise the possibility of the etymological link with "hinguha".
5. Given the current split of definitions, if etymologically related, they are doublets. --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 13:55, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

Is there are online version of Panganiban's dictionary? Also what are those two's meaning in that dictionary? I don't have access yet to that dictionary. Ysrael214 (talk) 13:57, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

@Ysrael214 By the way, remember to tag me every time you reply. The definitions of the two are the ones I put in the separate entries. "Hinuha" means "inference" and "hinguha" means "to take as addressed to oneself what was said about another (and be piqued or vexed about it)", which is the definition found in Vocabulario. I can email you a copy of Panganiban's. --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 13:59, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

@Mar vin kaiser Is there a way to give my email privately? This website is public domain. Thank you. Ysrael214 (talk) 14:02, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

@Mar vin kaiser Can you look at Diccionario Tagalog-Hispano By Pedro Serrano Laktaw? (not Hispano-Tagalog) It specifically states there that hinuha is from kuha. Which means this is confirmed. Also possible that they aren't doublets but the same word, just having multiple meanings. Ysrael214 (talk) 23:03, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

@Ysrael214: I can't find a copy of it with the pages for H. Whether or not it's the same word depends on the current usage. It's quite possible that they were the same word 100 years ago, but if we treat them as separate words today, then they're separate words. --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 02:39, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

@Mar vin kaiser

https://books.google.com.ph/books?redir_esc=y&id=jJ5PSQYsEdkC&q=hinuha#v=snippet&q=hinuha&f=false

Not sure if people do treat them as separate words nowadays, and it's only in a dictionary that made them separate. So it's still possible they're just alternative forms and hinguha just got obsolete. Or is hinguha still being used? How is it used? Is it exactly how Panganiban said how it is used?Ysrael214 (talk) 10:58, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

@Ysrael214: To be honest, I don't think hinguha is still being used today, so it's possibly obsolete. What seems to have happened is that the original word is "hinguha" with the meaning of "taking as addressed to oneself what was said about another", and then after a while the variant "hinuhà" appeared, and it gained a new meaning of "inference", and either the word "hinuha" was never attached to the original meaning or it faded quickly upon the popularization of the new meaning. And today "hinguha" is not used anymore, but "hinuha" meaning "inference" is relatively common. So I think that would justify them being split words, them gaining their own history. As a comparison, "Sisus" and "Hesus" both originate from the same Spanish words but at different times in history, I think they can be considered as alternative forms (Sisus an obsolete alternative form of Hesus), since they mean the same thing, but I don't mind them being shown as doublets as of the moment. --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 15:23, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

@Mar vin kaiser In the same source "Diccionario Tagalog-Hispano", you can search for hinguha is synonymous to hinuha; but "hinuha" in that dictionary also means "inference." Ysrael214 (talk) 15:37, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

@Ysrael214: Yeah, I saw that. To be honest, I'm more skeptical with the work of Laktaw, since as far as I know, he was more prescriptive, coining new words in his work. So I'm a bit doubtful when he's the only source giving one piece of information. --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 13:53, 6 October 2022 (UTC)