Talk:henohenomoheji

RFV discussion

The following information has failed Wiktionary's verification process.

Failure to be verified means that insufficient eligible citations of this usage have been found, and the entry therefore does not meet Wiktionary inclusion criteria at the present time. We have archived here the disputed information, the verification discussion, and any documentation gathered so far, pending further evidence.
Do not re-add this information to the article without also submitting proof that it meets Wiktionary's criteria for inclusion.

---

A face drawn using the hiragana characters he (へ), no (の), he (へ), no (の), mo (も), he (へ), and ji (じ). What context? Actual usage? Fictional universe or what? DCDuring TALK 19:18, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

A children's doodle, it seems. Wikipedia link added. Pingku 03:26, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

RFV failed, entry deleted. —Ruakh_TALK 23:39, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

The henohenomohe face is widely known in Japan, no fictional universe needed. The Wikipedia article is right in noting that it's about as iconic as the Kilroy doodle. There's no shortage of online references. The term shows up in a number of songs too. If Kilroy was here merits inclusion, I'd say that henohenomoheji (and the kana へのへのもへじ) should be included as well. (Apologies for posting this after deletion, but I only just saw this list entry today.) -- Eiríkr Útlendi - Tala við mig 20:16, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

I don't think anyone is disputing that the face exists, or that it's "notable" by Wikipedian standards; it may or may not be, but I certainly wouldn't know, and I doubt DCDuring would either. (No clue about Pingku.) But henohenomoheji does not seem to be used in English to refer to it. —Ruakh_TALK 21:41, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Fair enough, WRT any English entry; I certainly wouldn't object to not including the term under the "English" heading. However, I thought we were including rōmaji for all Japanese-language entries, as a means for folks to look up Japanese terms without needing to know how to read / write in kana or kanji? Wiktionary:About_Japanese#Considerations_about_Japanese_language_entries by way of reference. -- Eiríkr Útlendi - Tala við mig 22:28, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Only the English entry failed RFV. If you believe a Japanese entry of the same title would meet the CFI, feel free to add one. (Don't let the "do not re-enter without valid citations" in the deletion summary deter you; that just means that you can't re-enter the RFV-failed (English) entry without valid citations. Other entries at the same page are considered separately.) —Ruakh_TALK 22:51, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

RFV 2

The following information has failed Wiktionary's verification process.

Failure to be verified means that insufficient eligible citations of this usage have been found, and the entry therefore does not meet Wiktionary inclusion criteria at the present time. We have archived here the disputed information, the verification discussion, and any documentation gathered so far, pending further evidence.
Do not re-add this information to the article without also submitting proof that it meets Wiktionary's criteria for inclusion.

---

I was very surprised to see that this failed RFV, because it seems like a fairly well-known term. I think this is more a case of nobody bothering to look for citations, than that there actually aren't any. So I'm re-nominating it so that the entry can be restored. See also Talk:henohenomoheji. —CodeCat 22:53, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Sadly, that does happen from time to time (that no one bothers to cite something).

If nothing else, could someone create the Japanese (romaji) entry the talk page suggests is attested? - -sche (discuss) 23:25, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

I can't cite this for the life of me. There's nothing on Google Books, save a volume compiled from Wikipedia articles. There's nothing on News or Groups either. Astral (talk) 14:02, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

So nobody who speaks English has ever talked about henohenomoheji in a durably archived source? Do only Japanese people talk about it? I find that hard to believe, really... Still, if we can't find any cites for English, we should definitely have at least a Japanese definition on this page. —CodeCat 14:43, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

I've restored the entry so that the content that was deleted before can be reused, to make a Japanese entry (or to make an English one if this passes). —CodeCat 14:46, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Here's what I could find.

• google books:"henohenomoheji" -wiki -wikipedia -wiktionary shows 12 hits, 5 of which appear to not actually contain the term.
  • [1] appears to be a business name in a telephone directory, so that probably doesn't meet CFI
  • [2] is in Chinese, so ditto there.
  • [3] is a TOC listing, pointing to [4], a description of the "Kakashi Hatake" character from Naruto (bolding mine):

    His second unique ability is the pack of eight ninja dogs (忍犬 Ninken) he is able to summon to his side. The dogs are capable of talking. Each one has a henohenomoheji on his back, a face used on scarecrows. He primarily uses them for tracking purposes...

  • [5] is a dupe of the above quote.
  • [6] is basically another dupe of the above quote.
  • [7] doesn't show the content of the book, but the title is Japanese Word Games: Shiritori, Henohenomoheji, Dajare, Uta-Garuta, Kaibun
• google books:"henohenomohe" -wiki -wikipedia -wiktionary shows two more hits, of which only the first hit actually includes the term, with the -ji on the end with a hyphen.
  • [8] has the following quote:

    When discussing the farts and the heavy use of the fart letter へ he in Japanese, I mentioned a picture, a "fart-face" made from it. Such a picture, called a へのへのもへじ henohenomohe-ji (also, へへののもへ（い）じ), or へのへの he-no-he-no for short, generally has seven letters.

Even should this term fail RFV for English, it's all over the place in Japanese, so we should convert the entry to a JA entry rather than just delete it. -- Eiríkr Útlendi │ Tala við mig 19:09, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

If it is not English and not loaned into English then it cannot be verified or kept on the English wiktionary.71.142.71.205 21:40, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

No, that's not how the English Wiktionary works. We are a dictionary of all languages.--Prosfilaes (talk) 22:52, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

No, pay attention, the English wiktionary version's English language entryspace is not a Wiktionary for all languages it only holds English terms, I cannot add in words from Chinese as English words unless they are loanwords and therefore English.71.142.71.205 01:37, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

71, your exhortation misses the mark here, as I believe Prosfilaes *was* paying attention -- the wording in your previous post really does sound like you want to remove all non-English entries from the entire English Wiktionary site. The phrase "kept on the English wiktionary" is where the confusion arises. For instance, the Japanese term 菩薩 is "on the English wiktionary", but is listed as a Japanese term. -- Eiríkr Útlendi │ Tala við mig 01:44, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

• I suspect that 71 misspoke, as it were -- if we cannot cite use of the term in English, then we cannot keep it as an English entry. Provided that that is what 71 meant, then I agree. If 71 intended instead that we should remove the term altogether, then I wholeheartedly disagree and must point out what Prosfilaes says here -- Wiktionary is intended to be a dictionary of all languages. And since we *can* cite henohenomoheji in use in Japanese, and since we are including romanized entries of Japanese terms, then we must keep the term, but as a Japanese entry. -- Eiríkr Útlendi │ Tala við mig 01:13, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

We should probably have へのへのもへじ too. —CodeCat 02:09, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

 Done ~ Röbin Liönheart (talk) 04:34, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

RFV-failed (again). - -sche (discuss) 20:35, 3 April 2013 (UTC)