Talk:ha'p'orth
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For such an unusual construction, it would really help to have quotations. They should be easy to find for archaic texts, right? --Connel MacKenzie 21:14, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
- Archaic? Ha'p'nies may no longer be legal tender, but like brass farthings they're not erased from our minds! (OK I just made up that shortening, but since we've always pronounced halfpennies like that I wonder why we stuck to the long spelling -- maybe someone called Featherstonehaugh (pronounced "Fanshaw") insisted on it.) --Enginear 18:59, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
- Added a Dickens cite. --Ptcamn 09:23, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
Well-known work, rfv removed, feel free to add more though. DAVilla 16:32, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
- More added. Also, sense as stupid person removed as incorrect -- certainly, daft ha'p'orth means (usually between friends) a stupid person but it is daft that means stupid while ha'p'orth is merely the use of halfpennyworth in its figurative sense, to mean item of little worth. If that needs an extra sense, it should be listed under halfpennyworth rather than under ha'p'orth but I feel it's adequately covered by the halfpennyworth Usage note. --Enginear 18:59, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
- Restoring this sense... when I call someone a "daft ha'porth" this is indeed a figurative sense, extending the first meaning. Note that "daft pennyworth", "daft twopennyworth", etc, do not exist.
- Furthermore, it belongs under "ha'p'orth" rather than "halfpennyworth" as that is the usual spelling. — Paul G 09:05, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
- Fair comments. The previous def irritated me by saying that ha'p'orth meant idiot, when actually it only means worthless person, with daft etc adding the silly sense. I still don't like the present def, but can't think how to improve it further without overcomplicating, so have left it.
- It is by far the most common verbal usage of ha'p'orth, even in London 200 miles from its roots, but for some reason is hard to find cites for (compared with other generally verbal phrases). --Enginear 18:51, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
With my Yorkshire background I know this word as a'pth (sic) (Haypath without the H and without the second a). I should think that most English (or even British) persons imitating a 'yorkshire' accent (there are many) would be able to rely on "y' daft a'pth" to get them started! Along with dozy a'pth these are often gentle or even loving reprovals within family and friends. (81.157.118.213 14:21, 24 February 2008 (UTC))
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Sense:
Per the inline comment, this has been discussed before, but I don't find the conclusion of that discussion very satisfactory. The usage note says "Use in the colloquial British sense of 'a foolish person' is usually modified with an adjective such as daft or silly" (my emphasis), but I would suggest that it is always used thus. For this definition to survive as currently worded, I suggest that citations in which the word is used in the relevant sense without any such adjective should be provided. Mihia (talk) 02:32, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
- So cited. Only one, but it shows that the term can be used without the "daft" or "silly". Kiwima (talk) 04:19, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
- OK, fair enough, thanks. My feeling is that the cited usage could be a back-formation from "daft ha'p'orth", but this theory is kind of hair-splitting and unprovable anyway. Mihia (talk) 13:10, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
RFV-passed Kiwima (talk) 22:12, 26 May 2018 (UTC)
Note should be taken of the English idiom "don't spoil the ship for a ha'p'orth of tar".