Talk:gorgonzola

RFV: Finnish entry retained

After this discussion, it was decided to keep the Finnish section. — Beobach 06:22, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

The following discussion has been moved from Wiktionary:Requests for verification.

This discussion is no longer live and is left here as an archive. Please do not modify this conversation, but feel free to discuss its conclusions.

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gorgonzola

Finnish section was speedily deleted as "not Finnish by any standards imaginable". Both creation and speedy deletion were by native speakers (according to user pages, I mean). Mglovesfun (talk) 23:59, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

I deleted this section and can confirm as native Finnish-speaker. If you want to keep the entry, you can keep it. Whether such word is Finnish or not is a bit controversial, and a puritan would probably disagree. Correct Finnish spelling would be something along the lines of gorgontsola or gorgontsoola - the issue is that both g and z are non-existant in proper Finnish language (g can appear only in combination ng = ŋ), except for when foreign words are quoted or transcribed as such. This includes another Italian cheesy loan, mozzarella - usage here too is very widespread but it's still not a Finnish word strictly speaking, although it could be included in a dictionary just to show that Finnish has no own word for "mozzarella" or "gorgonzola" and the Italian word is used instead as such.

Anyway, I was originally alerted about this term by use in an on-line article by the biggest Finnish-language newspaper. Known to (sometimes) pay careful attention to the language they use, Helsingin Sanomat is a de facto semi-official authority over the Finnish language. So, it would be easy to counterargue that this word satisfies WT:CFI. However, whether English-language edition of Wiktionary should list all latin-alphabet languages (apart from the English language) that don't have a local term for gorgonzola cheese and use the original Italian term to refer to this cheese varierty, is too an issue to consider, and I can't find a WT-guideline on the matter either. My personal opinion is that gorgonzola is not Finnish. --Hydrox 01:30, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Erm, keep for those reasons. Mglovesfun (talk) 01:33, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Mm, yes, and my opinion is keep - Wiktionary is not a forum for this discussion so please close this topic ASAP and let it be status quo. --Hydrox 01:43, 7 November 2010 (UTC) Edit: I've taken the liberty to close the debate as there are no differing opinions. --Hydrox 01:50, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Well, lots of languages use loanwords. Gorgonzola is a difficult word, and if I encountered it in running text I might want to know what it means. I wouldn't really care whether it was 'English' or not - I'd just like to know what it means. Mglovesfun (talk) 12:15, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

The word "gorgonzola" is used all the time in Finnish food journalism. It is as much Finnish as, say, auto or spagetti. Keeping was definitely the correct solution, IMHO. BTW, good to see new native Finns around. --Hekaheka 21:06, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Yes, everybody should forget the question is this word Finnish, English, etc.? and use the question is this word used in Finnish, English, etc.? Lmaltier 21:20, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Striking as kept, I suppose.​—msh210℠ (talk) 17:13, 8 November 2010 (UTC)