Talk:feminism

feminine aspect

I'm not sure how to change this without opening up a hornet's nest (Pandora's box?), but the present definition (movement promoting gender equality or whatever) seems to miss the feminine aspect. -dmh 21:44, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I think they should create a new name for gender equality and change feminism to promoting female superiority. just as you wouldn't call somebody for race equality a 'caucasionist'. anonymous 13:55, 8 Aug 2007 (AEST)

Yes, I agree that the current definition seems to be pushing a Point of View, and appears politically correct and protective of feminism. It should read more like "advocacy of women's rights and interests, politically and socially." Would something like this be better? -- Thisis0 04:13, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

feminism is NOT the belief of female superiority. that is bullshit propagated by misogynistic males who dislike the feminist movement. disgusting. — This unsigned comment was added by 86.179.131.94 (talk) at 02:39, May 17, 2010.

I find it most ironic, when seeing comments such as above, that femina (as in feminism) originally meant "the one who perfoms fellatio", but is nowadays used as a self-designation by militant androphobes to battle the prejudices inherent in their designation. I wonder how many other such "historical contranyms" there are. --Ivan Štambuk 08:38, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

That is not correct. 'Femina' comes from 'to suckle' meaning a child [2]. Also, please remember Wikipedia:Civility Emmsquille 21:17, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

That's why I put it up for verification; see WT:RFV#feminism. Equinox ◑ 16:33, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

The following information has failed Wiktionary's verification process.

Failure to be verified means that insufficient eligible citations of this usage have been found, and the entry therefore does not meet Wiktionary inclusion criteria at the present time. We have archived here the disputed information, the verification discussion, and any documentation gathered so far, pending further evidence.
Do not re-add this information to the article without also submitting proof that it meets Wiktionary's criteria for inclusion.

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feminism

"A belief in the superiority of women." (simplified from a rather more prolix recent addition) Equinox ◑ 12:08, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

This is a tough one. Here in the U.S., it's obvious that many people treat the word "feminism" as a dirty one, whereas no one seems to have anything against "gender equality"; but when you try to pin down what exactly the "feminism"-haters think "feminism" means, you don't get anything easily translated into a dictionary definition. (See e.g. http://quietube.com/v.php/http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pdbnzFUsXI.) Maybe our sense #2 should just be Used pejoratively.? Also, we might want to split the "social theory" and the "political movement" into two separate defs. —Ruakh_TALK 14:30, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

As you say. I had started to look at bgc, but was overwhelmed by the women's studies literature. It just occurred to me that the right search might be for "man-hating / man-hater" and "feminism" to try to get evidence to infer a pejorative definition. It isn't really good form to build a definition solely around a tag like "pejorative" or, worse, "ironic", is it? DCDuring TALK 15:53, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

A typical mention(?) confirming the existence of the sense:

— This unsigned comment was added by DCDuring (talk • contribs) at 16:02–4, 20 December 2009 (UTC).

Feminism has been supportive of writers such as Valerie Solanas with titles such as SCUM Society for Cutting Up Men — This unsigned comment was added by 85.226.4.185 (talk) at 01:31, 22 December 2009 (UTC).

The question at hand is this: what does the word feminism mean? In other words, when people use the word feminism, what are they referring to? Your statement seems to be a statement about feminism, i.e. about the feminist movement, rather than about the word feminism itself. That is, you seem to be presupposing that, regardless of our individual opinions about the movement, we all mean the same thing by the word itself. (By comparison: suppose that you think Cleveland sucks, whereas I think it rocks. We still mean the same thing by the place-name Cleveland, we just have different opinions about the place we're both referring to.) —Ruakh_TALK 18:35, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

The word sounds familiar to me, I know I've heard it. Not that that makes it meet cfi or anything .....L☺g☺maniac ☃ 02:11, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Better written as: 'the belief that only women are human beings, while all men are animals' — This unsigned comment was added by 122.160.231.174 (talk) at 13:18, 29 December 2009 (UTC).

Prove it. —Ruakh_TALK 14:09, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Deleted. Equinox ◑ 23:49, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

added senses

In these edits, two senses were added, with edit summaries suggesting the edits were motivated in part by a desire to have parallel definitions at feminism and masculism. But these words are used differently, as previous RFVs have shown. I've removed the sense that was semi-redundant to the attested sense but with wording like that of the sense which failed RFV above. - -sche (discuss) 20:26, 9 December 2012 (UTC) - -sche (discuss) 20:26, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

The 'different uses' of the terms are situational. People also use 'masculism' to describe a male equivalent of the accepted feminism definition, just as people use 'feminism' to describe a female version of the accepted version of 'masculism'.

"Advocacy of the rights of women, or promotion of values which are seen to be typically female"

That's what was added, and that is an appropriate usage of feminism. People do not merely use feminism to refer to equality-based aims. Radical feminism includes descriptions of feminists who levy for non-equality based things such as female rulership over men. 'Radfem' communities also discuss things like wiping men out to reduce their population % or preferentially aborting male children. Etym (talk) 05:58, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

I've never heard of gendercide against men happening, and only preferential abortions of female children. Can you attest the sense you think we should add? ~ Röbin Liönheart (talk) 08:53, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

But those radfems say that they are doing it for equality, thus it fits under an equality definition.--Simplificationalizer (talk) 22:26, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I have yet to find any smoking‐gun examples of self‐identified feminists practising androcide, let alone straight‐faced assertions that they’re doing it for ‘equality’. They seem to be largely—if not entirely—restricted to the imaginations of scaremongering moderates. — (((Romanophile))) ♞ (contributions) 05:24, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

Add

I wanted to add this section, but could not since it is locked. Perhaps someone else can add it? Kind regards, Timelezz (talk) 02:08, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

# The belief that there should be equality between the sexes.

That's essentially what the second sense says, albeit with more words. Any suggestions for how to refine the existing definition to improve its clarity and concision? -Cloudcuckoolander (talk) 02:24, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

I would drop "social theory or" and "in all aspects of public and private life". The bit about "...legal and social restrictions on women must be removed..." is perhaps awkwardly phrased, but does make a seemingly useful point, namely that the reason the movement is feminism is that women are the main people whose situation needs to be improved in order for equality to be obtained. - -sche (discuss) 03:05, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

feminism / masculism

Why is there such disparity between the added definition of the coordinate terms 'feminism' and 'masculism'? If 'masculism' is defined as "Support for patriarchy / male domination of women; opposition to equality for women; anti-feminism." shouldn't 'feminism' be defined as "Support for matriarchy / female domination of men; opposition to equality for men; anti-masculism."? — This unsigned comment was added by 208.58.254.224 (talk) at 13:34, 11 June 2019‎.

That is not the only definition of masculism here. - Alumnum (talk) 16:40, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

Your point being..? — This unsigned comment was added by 208.58.254.224 (talk).

You're really grasping at straws. Feminism is so much more complex than masculism – trying to implement your POV here will only land you in the world of blocked IPs. --Robbie SWE (talk) 18:30, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

There is no rule saying that opposite-sounding words must have exactly opposed meanings, e.g. flammable / inflammable. Equinox ◑ 18:42, 11 June 2019 (UTC)