Talk:ent

The following information passed a request for deletion.

This discussion is no longer live and is left here as an archive. Please do not modify this conversation, but feel free to discuss its conclusions.

---

ent

Comments with green left border copied from Wiktionary:Requests for verification. —Ruakh_TALK 20:12, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Both senses. I've never heard of ent as a short term for entertainment. The Tolkien sense seems to fail WT:CFI#Independence, as there is no common or generic sense. Dmcdevit·t 23:34, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't think there needs to be a common or generic sense. WT:CFI#Independence is just meant to exclude verbatim quotes, isn't it? (If not it should.) "Ent" may only be used to refer to the characters of Tolkien's fiction, but Tolkien's fiction is widely discussed (and translated), and the word "ent" used by people other than Tolkien.

• 2003: Walter Scheps, "The Fairy-tale Morality of The Lord of the Rings", in Jared Lobdell (ed.), A Tolkien Compass

  [...] and that fine young ent Quickbeam is merely a minor crux in an Old English glossary (the name Quickbeam means 'living tree' in Old English).

• 2003: Colin Duriez, Tolkien and C. S. Lewis: The Gift of Friendship

  Tolkien's Treebeard, his Ent creation, was inspired by Lewis, especially his sometimes emphatic deep voice

• 2003: Ralph C. Wood, The Gospel According to Tolkien: Visions of the Kingdom in Middle-earth

  Tolkien perhaps speaks for himself when he has Treebeard confess that "nobody cares for the woods as I care for them," and when this same Ent also warns that "the withering of all woods may be drawing near"

--Ptcamn 14:01, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

"Ents," as tree-like beings is a purely Tolkien usage. It is also, I believe, protected by copyright. "Ent" (plural: I think "enta", although I may be mistaken, as I'm certainly no expert) was an Anglo-Saxon term for a giant or monster. Several of Tolkien's creations have obsolete historical words for names, such as Warg and Orc. In all cases, the Tolkien usage differs somewhat from the original use. "Entwife" must be a Tolkienism, though, surely. RobbieG 15:07, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't think it's possible to copyright individual words. --Ptcamn 21:19, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

My mistake, it's the actual creatures themselves that are protected by copyright, although that hasn't stopped the creation of cheap knock-offs that differ only in their names, like "Treants," ""Treemen", "Tree Kin"" and "Treefolk." RobbieG 15:35, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

"[E]ntertainment" sense RFV failed, removed. "A fictional […] large talking tree" RFV passed (thanks, Ptcamn); brought to RFD for discussion. —Ruakh_TALK 20:07, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Keep or revise the independence clause. Similar to #protocol droid above. If we are of the opinion that it is better for the health of the project to exclude all words which are tied to a specific fictional world, then we should state so clearly. I have no strong opinion one way or the other. But this entry certainly passes the independence criterion as it is currently written. -- Visviva 02:06, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Keep The presence of numerous cheap knockoffs is a sign of the concept's acceptance into a broader culture. Likewise for hobbit and orc, but probably not for warg. --EncycloPetey 06:21, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Comment The cheap knockoffs don't use the name ent, so aren't really relevant to that term's inclusion hither or exclusion hence. —Ruakh_TALK 06:29, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

This entry has survived Wiktionary's verification process.

Please do not re-nominate for verification without comprehensive reasons for doing so.

---

Per the new-ish CFI policy on fictional universes, this needs citations "independent of reference to that universe." Dmcdevit·t 08:13, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Although the extraordinary number of scannos makes final determination difficult, I can find no indications of uptake outside Tolkiendom. The common term for this sort of entity in fantasy/RPG literature is treant. "Treant" dates back at least to the early days of Dungeons & Dragons, having possibly been introduced to avoid charges of copyvio; curiously, I can find no b.g.c. cites before the 21st century, though I first encountered it in the late 1980s. (All of the uses I could find were incredibly dull, so I have refrained from citing that entry for now). -- Visviva 13:27, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

• John Allran, "Men of Their Word", 2006, p37

  "'Hello, my good friend, myself I present

  Not human, nor tree, for I am an ent.'"

• Robert Dunn, "Horse Latitudes", 2003, p98

  "Somewhere, ents and manitous laugh grimly

  For, despite all this, the trees lasted much longer

  Than most of the presents, and all of the holiday spirit."

• Allen Paterson, "Trees for Your Garden", 2003, p180

  "But this should not lead to complete avoidance, as if it is like some dire incursion of triffids or ents."

• Stephen King and Peter Straub, "The Talisman", 2001, p133

  "Ents and Entwives, Jack thought crazily. BAD Ents and Entwives."

• Paola Amico and James Beletic, "Scientific Detectors for Astronomy: The Beginning of a New Era", 2004, page xxvi

  "The Ents are a race of giant, tree-like people. Their purpose is to protect the electrons, though some align themselves with holes. However, as the great arrays have grown, the number of Ents has dwindled. Now they are said only to be found in the darkest and most mysterious of laboratories."

Really fuckin hard word to check. Language Lover 00:59, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

RFV discussion: September–October 2019

The following information has failed Wiktionary's verification process (permalink).

Failure to be verified means that insufficient eligible citations of this usage have been found, and the entry therefore does not meet Wiktionary inclusion criteria at the present time. We have archived here the disputed information, the verification discussion, and any documentation gathered so far, pending further evidence.
Do not re-add this information to the article without also submitting proof that it meets Wiktionary's criteria for inclusion.

---

ent

There are three citations, but all three are in reference to Tolkien’s Middle Earth fictional universe, and so (per WT:FICTION) do not count for attestation purposes.  --Lambiam 08:17, 15 September 2019 (UTC)

The problem is, the common term for this creature in other fiction is treant. Do enough non-Tolkienian instances of ent exist? Tharthan (talk) 17:40, 15 September 2019 (UTC)

What about those things on the talk page? Also I think there's one in this book From Naked Ape to Superspecies: Humanity and the Global Eco-Crisis The Language Learner (talk) 23:34, 11 October 2019 (UTC)

RFV-passed Kiwima (talk) 19:41, 15 October 2019 (UTC)