Talk:elfen

Noun meaning "female elf" (failed RFV)

User:-sche condensed the following information, on the (RFV-failed) use of elfen as a noun, from an entire page posted by AnWulf ... Ferþu Hal! at 13:57, 1 January 2012 (UTC).

1. (historical) A female elf, a fairy, nymph
   • Whatever external influences they may reflect, the female elfen came into being in pre-Conquest England. — Alaric Hall, Glosses, Gaps and Gender: The Rise of Female Elves in Anglo-Saxon Culture, 2007
   • Archaic forms are again apparent, in the form feldælbinne, itself glossed with a tenth-century Kentish form familiar to the scribe, elfenne, — Alaric Hall, (quoting Wolfgang, Kittlick), ibid.
2. (with invariable plural elfen) A member of a fictional race of non-humans.
   • 2003, John Dixon, The Birchwood Cub:

     She it was who taught the elfen how to hunt and how to live in harmony […]

• The adjective form originally derived from the OE feminine noun form of elfen. In fact, elfin, and elven (f to v) are nothing more than spelling variations of elfen. Elfen originally had the sense of feminine, small, dainty* ... thus childlike. They morphed into a general adjective equivalent with the ur-adjectives elfish/elvish (f to v).
• From Old English elfen, ælfen (“nymph, spirit, fairy”), feminine of elf, ælf (“elf”), equivalent to elf +‎ -en. Cognate with Middle High German elbinne (“a fairy, nymph”).
• Alaric Hall, Glosses, Gaps and Gender: The Rise of Female Elves in Anglo-Saxon Culture, 2007
• OED for elfin: elfin |ˈelfən| adjective 1. (with reference to a person) small and delicate, ...

--AnWulf ... Ferþu Hal! 13:57, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

RFV discussion: December 2011–March 2012

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elfen

Claimed to be a singular noun with plural elfens or elfene. This might be true but in the sole citation for this PoS elfen is much more easily read as a plural of (deprecated template usage) elf. DCDuring TALK 23:31, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Said sole citation is definitely using elfen in reference to a different, but clearly elf-inspired, fictional race; the work in question uses elfen as both singular and plural, though, so there's no way to tell which one the citation is. Regardless, it doesn't support the "female elf" sense. (And I'm confident that it's not durably archived, anyway.) —Ruakh_TALK 19:55, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

This was my creation. I was going back to edit it since I wasn't satisfied ... It's been totally redone in a few days so much that it is now messed up (even the wiki reference is wrong). Here's what I intend to do. I'm going to mark the noun as historical rather than archaic, since it is mainly used by historians ... and this is the quote that I'm going to put in: Whatever external influences they may reflect, the female elfen came into being in pre-Conquest England. The second quote shows the plural elfenne: Archaic forms are again apparent, in the form feldælbinne, itself glossed with a tenth-century Kentish form familiar to the scribe, elfenne,. I'm also going to put this all back under the one etym. Really ... if folks can't see that elfen came from OE elfen ... they need to get their eyes checked.

As for the story I quoted, as I recall, the race was entirely female ... no males were ever mentioned. It may be that the author was going to introduce them later, but never did. That's why put it in there for a quote. Since you've cleaned it up. I may leave it. I was thinking about taking it out.

And yes, elfen is also a plural of elfe (f) ... another female form. I have found three female forms in the singular (elfe, elfen, elven) in English ... the whole elf and it's derivatives is a jumbled mess. The adjectives are elvish, elfish, elven, elfen, elfin. I'v seen them all! BTW, German borrowed Elf (m), Elfe (f), Elfen (pl) from English.

I think this should take care of the rfv. I'll let you take it out if it does. --AnWulf ... Ferþu Hal! 23:14, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

There are still no valid quotations. The Alaric Hall quotes do not use the word (they merely mention it), and the story is not durably archived. (Also, the story does indeed have males, as in the paragraph "Laeri's life-mate was Kerris Seesfar. He had glossy chestnut fur and eyes as brown as pine-cones. In his mane, as well as the carved bone warrior-rings, he wore jay's feathers, for he was the greatest hunter of the grove - even the bears moved softly in the woods for fear of Kerris Seesfar. He was our ancestor too, a fine and skillful hunter, strong and brave.") —Ruakh_TALK 20:44, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

RFV-failed. - -sche (discuss) 07:39, 18 March 2012 (UTC)