Talk:carpasinus

RFV discussion: October 2016–March 2017

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carpasinus

RFV for the Latin carpasinus (“green”). Judging by google books:"carpasinus", a word like this does seem to exist, and it does seem to have something to do with colour, but "green"? — I.S.M.E.T.A. 10:40, 12 October 2016 (UTC)
Also, this term is not listed by L&S, du Cange, Gaffiot, the OLD, Niermeyer, or the NLW. — I.S.M.E.T.A. 10:41, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

There is a genus name Carposinus (certain bark beetles, now Cyrtogenius on Wikispecies.Wikispecies ) (and another Carposina on Wikispecies.Wikispecies of fruit moths/borers), the names presumably derived from καρπός (karpós, “fruit”). I have not yet found any use of either carpasinus or carposinus as a specific epithet (any gender). DCDuring TALK 13:22, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

This is from a hapax legomenon in the Hebrew of Esther 1:6, which is nowadays translated as cotton or fine linen. No one knew what to do with it, so they just transliterated it, until the King James Version translators just made something up rather than use a transliteration:

• Hebrew:  
  ח֣וּר כַּרְפַּ֣ס וּתְכֵ֗לֶת אָחוּז֙ בְּחַבְלֵי־ב֣וּץ וְאַרְגָּמָ֔ן עַל־גְּלִ֥ילֵי כֶ֖סֶף וְעַמּ֣וּדֵי שֵׁ֑שׁ מִטּ֣וֹת זָהָ֣ב וָכֶ֗סֶף עַ֛ל רִֽצְפַ֥ת בַּהַט־וָשֵׁ֖שׁ וְדַ֥ר וְסֹחָֽרֶת

  (please add an English translation of this usage example)

• Septuagint:  
  κεκοσμημένῃ βυσσίνοις καὶ καρπασίνοις τεταμένοις ἐπὶ σχοινίοις βυσσίνοις καὶ πορφυροῖς ἐπὶ κύβοις χρυσοῖς καὶ ἀργυροῖς ἐπὶ στύλοις παρίνοις καὶ λιθίνοις· κλῖναι χρυσαῖ καὶ ἀργυραῖ ἐπὶ λιθοστρώτου σμαραγδίτου λίθου καὶ πιννίνου καὶ παρίνου λίθου καὶ στρωμναὶ διαφανεῖς ποικίλως διηνθισμέναι, κύκλῳ ῥόδα πεπασμένα

  kekosmēménēi bussínois kaì karpasínois tetaménois epì skhoiníois bussínois kaì porphuroîs epì kúbois khrusoîs kaì arguroîs epì stúlois parínois kaì lithínois; klînai khrusaî kaì arguraî epì lithostrṓtou smaragdítou líthou kaì pinnínou kaì parínou líthou kaì strōmnaì diaphaneîs poikílōs diēnthisménai, kúklōi rhóda pepasména

  (please add an English translation of this usage example)

• Vulgate:  
  et pendebant ex omni parte tentoria aerii coloris et carpasini et hyacinthini sustentata funibus byssinis atque purpureis qui eburneis circulis inserti erant et columnis marmoreis fulciebantur lectuli quoque aurei et argentei super pavimentum zmaragdino et pario stratum lapide dispositi erant quod mira varietate pictura decorabat

  (please add an English translation of this usage example)

• King James Version:  
  There were white, green, and blue, hangings, fastened with cords of fine linen and purple to silver rings and pillars of marble: the beds were of gold and silver, upon a pavement of red, and blue, and white, and black, marble.
• New Revised Standard Version:  
  There were white cotton curtains and blue hangings tied with cords of fine linen and purple to silver rings and marble pillars. There were couches of gold and silver on a mosaic pavement of porphyry, marble, mother-of-pearl, and colored stones.

Actually, I vaguely remember there being a similar, but unrelated word that meant something like "green and growing" in some language along the way, so it wasn't completely arbitrary- but I'm just going on my memory of stuff I read 4 decades ago when I was interested in biblical plants. At any rate, this is one of those mistranslations in the KJV that can't be completely ignored because it's in the KJV- even if it is completely wrong, Chuck Entz (talk) 14:19, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

Just because the KJV uses 'green' doesn't mean we have to. After all, the KJV comes after the Vulgate. Just put basically what we've said, the meaning is unknown but subsequent English translations have used 'green' and 'linen' as possible translations. Renard Migrant (talk) 19:26, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

BTW it's one of the things you eat in the Seder, there's w:Karpas. But there isn't really a consensus on what is it. —Enosh (talk) 07:48, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

Note: See the relevant discussion at Talk:כרפס. — I.S.M.E.T.A. 11:59, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

The word seems to meet CFI via the Vulgate citation, but I have changed the definition to note the uncertainty about its meaning. Please revise the definition and etymology further if needed, but the RFV seems to be resolved. - -sche (discuss) 07:15, 18 March 2017 (UTC)