Talk:capisce

I doubt that this comes from the italian capisce. I suppose that it might be spelled that way in english because the final vowel is silent, so they used silent e when writing it. However, saying in italian capisce? wouldn't make sense because that would be third person. I suppose that the actual source of the verb would be capisci, the second person form. Through quick informal usages by italian gangsters in america, the i was dropped of in pronunciation, (like in japanese, し shi is pronounced usually sh') and was loaned to american gangsters as capeesh and spelled capisce based on the italian. capisce would only be second person in formal speach, which I can't imagine a gangster using in such a setting. — This unsigned comment was added by 67.212.110.120 (talk) at 20:50, 1 April 2009‎ (UTC).

I agree. I'm gonna edit the etymology. Eric Kvaalen (talk) 08:15, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

This is flawed reasoning. 'Capisce?' *does* make sense in Italian, because the 3rd person sg can be used as a formal form of 'you'. Now, we might question whether gangsters would use the formal form, but when we speak of the formal/informal forms of 'you' in European languages, it isn't a case of 'formal' in the sense of talking posh. Rather, the formal 'you' is the more socially distant form, used when speaking to everyone you're not on first-name terms with (in cultures where, generally, people traditionally proceed to first-name terms much more slowly than in the US). Secondly, the Oxford English Dictionary and Merriam-Webster both derive 'capisce' from 'capisce', not 'capisci'. Now, there is at least one source that derives it from 'capisci', EtymOnline (though for all I know, EtymOnline might have used Wiktionary as its source). But the OED and M-W are both very reputable sources, and the reasoning given above for abandoning the original 'capisce' etymology is flawed, I'm afraid.

Usage Note

The usage note currently reads "Without a question mark at the end, it is sometimes used to mean, “I understand”, as an American colloquialism. In standard Italian, that would actually mean “he/she/it understands” or a formal “you understand”, but it might be grammatical in spoken Sicilian or Neapolitan, which sometimes reduce or drop final vowels." However, "I understand" is "capisco" (pronounced with /k/ not with the "sh" or "capisce"). This suggests that even if the final vowel were dropped, "capisco" wouldn't become "capisce". But perhaps one would have to study the Sicilian or Neapolitan dialects specifically. Even so, the sentence beginning "it might" seems pointless speculation and unless there's more of a basis to it, it should probably be removed.