Talk:brogue

Isn't "Erse" incorrect here? One tends to think of the term as antique and somewhat condescending. It may also be inaccurate in that, as the Scots term for "Irish," it technically refers to Scottish Gaelic and not to Irish per se. There are also technical questions about whether it is proper to use a term that includes Scottish Gaelic and Irish (but not, apparently, Manx?), since those are different languages. There is, for example, no single term encompassing Spanish and Portuguese -- though their written forms tend to be mutually intelligible and their spoken forms somewhat mutually intelligible as with Scottish Gaelic and Irish.

Huh? There is a term encompassing Spanish and Portuguese: Iberian. Yes, the word is "antique", which is why the article uses the past tense to mention it. --EncycloPetey 18:36, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

I've removed the word Erse on the following grounds:

• It is a derogatory term to some people (the Oxford calls it "Now arch. or derog.")
• It conveys no useful information that isn't conveyed by the easily understood word Irish

I've also removed the reference to it being a "Gaelic" term on similar grounds.

• It's an English word
• Gaelic has been used as a derogatory term in Ireland for Irish
• Gaelic in the UK is usually understood as meaning Scottish Gaelic
• Information on the origin of the word should be in the etymology.

☸ Moilleadóir ☎ 05:59, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Talk:brogue

Webster's New World Dictionary (1959) gives the source for brogue (as in a dialect/accent) thus:

[prob. < Ir. barrōg, a grip]

—Strabismus 19:37, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

This seems plausible...

barróg¹, ... 1. Hug. 2. Wrestling grip. 3. Brogue, impediment of speech.
-Ó Dónaill, Foclóir Gaeilge-Béarla 1977

barróg, ... an embrace, a hold (in wrestling), a tight grip; leverage; a stitch in sickness; defective accentuation, hence the Anglo-Irish word brogue; b. teangan, a lisp; a difficulty, a fix;...
-Dinneen, Foclóir Gaedhilge agus Béarla 1927

...and certainly makes more sense than bróg. In the Shorter Oxford the shoe term and the accent term are separate entries although the etymology for the accent term is "Perh. same wd as prec." i.e. "Ir., Gael. bróg (OIr. bróc) f. ON brók: see BREECH n." . ☸ Moilleadóir ☎ 06:22, 11 May 2009 (UTC)