Talk:art for art's sake

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art for art's sake

SOP.​—msh210℠ (talk) 22:29, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Keep. It is a well-known English idiom. I don't think it's a sum of parts any more than a lot of common phrases are (e.g. angle of attack, ask the question). Probably should be categorised in Category:English idioms though. Tempodivalse [talk] 16:23, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

I don't see the idiom. It means just what it seems to mean. Mglovesfun (talk) 19:57, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

• Delete. It's not a set phrase - see on Google for other examples of that structure - "shock for shock's sake", "love for love's sake", "beauty for beauty's sake". Anyway that definition is just one interpretation of what "art for art's sake" could possibly mean - beauty is just one possible criterion of such a description. ---> Tooironic 13:21, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
• Yes, it's X for X's sake where X is anything that's attestable per CFI (so, rather a lot). Mglovesfun (talk) 13:28, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
• Keep. It may not be a set phrase because of its interchangeability with other words nowadays, but the meaning of the phrase is unique in the sense that, as Tempodivalse said, it is an idiom. It may be treated nowadays as a snowclone, but it certainly has an acceptably unique origin. Eug.galeotti 22:14, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
  • Evidence that it's 'unique in the sense that […] it is an idiom'? Mglovesfun (talk) 22:28, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
    • Firstly, I see you directly quoted me above, which makes me think that what I said was unclear (on second reading, that too didn't signify anything). Apologies. I say it's unique, because I have only ever used and heard of the phrase in the original form; never in any "X for X's sake" form. The original phrase has been in greater use and longer existence than the other phrases you've presented. In my opinion, this is a case where "art for art's sake" has fallen victim to the snowclone. I tried what you recommended about checking on Google, and for "shock for shock's sake", I only found 2 results, both linking to an article on TIME. "Beauty for beauty's sake" revealed 2 results with "beauty", while all other results were "X for beauty's sake". "Art for art's sake", by comparison, arrived as far as the end (page 78) of Google results with the original phrase. Eug.galeotti 01:37, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

kept, no consensus -- Liliana • 04:21, 19 October 2011 (UTC)