Talk:Wetterlage

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Wetterlage

Wetter + Lage -- Prince Kassad 21:17, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

But run together as one word. Most English speakers will not realize that the German is a compound; how to split it; or to look up (deprecated template usage) Lage instead of (deprecated template usage) lage. --EncycloPetey 21:38, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

I thought that in German, whenever one noun is used as an attributive modifier for another, it's always written solid? (So, like if we wrote "Biologytest", "Kitchentable", etc. in English.) I don't think we want entries for all pairs of German nouns, do we? (Disclaimer: I don't speak any German at all, so I may well be wrong. If so, please correct me.) —Ruakh_TALK 03:07, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

P.S. BTW, I'm not voting "delete", because Google suggests that this is incredibly common — possible a set phrase? — and that it might pass the lemming test. I just dislike the "most English speakers can't ____" rationale for keeping entries we shouldn't have. Our audience is speakers of English, but it's unrealistic to expect that someone with no knowledge of German could really make good use of a German-English dictionary. If we had the wherewithal to write custom language-specific software to help users out, that would be great, but within the MediaWiki framework, if our only "solution" is to add redundant entries that have no business in a dictionary, then we have to accept that we simply don't have a real solution, and probably never will. —Ruakh_TALK 03:13, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Wetterlage is listed in my Cassell’s. It’s a common term and should be kept. I believe that few beginning or intermediate students of German would come up with a good English translation of it simply by looking at Wetter and Lage. In any case, it’s a set term in German and good dictionaries have it. —Stephen 03:18, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Really? A set term? I don't think so. There's also Verkehrslage (traffic situation), Finanzlage (finance situation), Sicherheitslage (safety situation), etc. which are composed the same way. -- Prince Kassad 04:12, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

So (deprecated template usage) Wetterlage could mean "storm situation"? --EncycloPetey 04:16, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

That's an erroneous sense which simply does not exist and should be removed from Wetter. I don't know who added it. -- Prince Kassad 11:53, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

It was translated "storm situation" and marked masculine by a not-very-good-German speaker, based on its individual parts. I have already corrected it. —Stephen 05:10, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

• Keep: it's a German word. The German wiktionary already has Inversionswetterlage, and Wetterlage is a red link in a few other pages... Of course, we don't want to accept all possible pairs of German nouns: the use of the word must be attested (e.g. we don't accept Wetterfinanz). Also have a look at the Wasser page in the German wiktionary, with its numerous derived terms there is no reason to dismiss. Lmaltier 12:27, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
  • I agree that we don't want to accept all double (or more) -barreled German nouns: the use of the word must be attested. But all attested ones, yes, keep. This is English Wiktionary, and Anglophones treat such things as one word, whatever German speakers may treat them as.—msh210℠ 20:42, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

The word is listed in the Duden. Also, I think that the specific meaning cannot be derived from the parts. It is the predominant conditions of the weather in a larger area over a specific time period. keep Zeitlupe 16:13, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Weak keep. I understand the core of the discussion as a phantasy consideration in which we ask: would we include the word in Wiktionary if it were written as "Wetter Lage" in German? Under this phantasy: While it seems to be sum of parts to me, it is also a set term, per its high rate. I would equally support Verkehrslage and Finanzlage. However, still under this phantasy, I see little support for my position in WT:CFI. Specifically, WT:CFI has an allowance for idioms but not for set phrases and set terms. Also, it is worth considering how the English term "financial situation" fares under the same set of criteria: google:"financial situation" finds 3,180,000 hits for me. If the decision were up to me alone, I would refuse to step into the fantasy, and, by doing so, I would include the term per its being syntactically one word, and an attested one. So much my thoughts, for what they're worth. --Dan Polansky 15:08, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Also, not so much as a supporting argument in terms of WT:CFI but rather as a statement of a benefit, it is nice to know that Wetterlage is natively translated as "weather conditions" rather than the literal "weather situation". That, however, suggests to me that "weather conditions" is in a way a set phrase in English: it is the standard way in English how to capture the idea, unlike "weather situation"; compare google:"weather situation" and google:"weather conditions". --Dan Polansky 15:17, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

A relevant case: the English "headache"--a pain or ache in the head--seems to be a sum of parts, but is included, possibly for its being one word. Similar cases include "toothache", "earache", etc. --Dan Polansky 14:03, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Kept according our German experts. --Jackofclubs 15:56, 17 June 2009 (UTC)