Talk:Republic of Ireland

The following information passed a request for deletion.

This discussion is no longer live and is left here as an archive. Please do not modify this conversation, but feel free to discuss its conclusions.

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Nominated by DCDuring but not listed here. I don't understand this nomination just on the ground we've always (AFAICT) accepted countries as words. Ironically as I said above, I suppose United Kingdom is sum of parts because it's just a kingdom that's united (well, it isn't really is it). In other words keep per United Kingdom United States, United States of America, etc. Mglovesfun (talk) 22:12, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

I tagged it but didn't bring it here during the proposal-and-vote process. To me this seems like the quintessential encyclopedic gazetteer entry. "Republic of Ireland" seems to me to be one of the definitions of Ireland, but not a term likely to be looked up. Formal names seem almost inherently encyclopedic. If the formal name were in the body of the entry, Ireland would appear at the top of any search for that term anyway. DCDuring TALK 23:32, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Not sure, but just a comment: (Or as they say in another forum, IHNW IJLS:) This seems to be keepable/deletable along with [[Democratic People's Republic of Korea]], [[Republic of Korea]], [[People's Republic of China]], [[Republic of China]], [[Democratic Republic of Vietnam]], [[Republic of Vietnam]], [[Socialist Republic of Vietnam]], and perhaps a few others: each of the terms is sort-of SOP but easily confused with another entity's name, so people might want to look it up to determine which of the two it is.​—msh210℠ 15:40, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

IHNW IJLS?==--史凡>voice-MSN/skypeme!RSI>typin=hard! 05:26, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

I think a definition like "official name of the country xyz" seems okay, we also have République française thanks to erm, me. Mglovesfun (talk) 15:56, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

We have many other official country names as well: Republic of Armenia, Republic of Armenia, Republic of Djibouti, Republic of Finland, Suomen tasavalta, Republic of Ghana, Kingdom of Yemen, Kungariket Sverige... I think official names of the countries are worth keeping. Someone might want to use Wikipedia e.g. to search the official name of Malawi in Chinese. --Hekaheka 23:38, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Keep. There are lots of meanings of Ireland. --Rising Sun 08:41, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

So? What's your point? DCDuring TALK 23:08, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

What's the logic behind deleting it? Mglovesfun (talk) 20:55, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

My point is: this is how we can distinguish, between Ireland (Eire), Ireland (independent country). I would be happy for entries for Southern Ireland, Irish Free State, Irish Republic, Kingdom of Ireland, Lordship of Ireland, Gaelic Ireland, Confederate Ireland too (although Wikipedia already has them). --Rising Sun 08:55, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

We can readily distinguish among the words and phrases by whether they have attributive use. An encyclopedia might have to use different criteria of a more - what's the word - encyclopedic nature. There is nothing about Ireland in itself that makes it a better entry than Republic of Ireland. I had some small hope that we could dispense with the RfV process because we would all agree that it was uncitable in attributive use.

I hope that all of these and many more have entries in the Historical Translating Wikigazetteer of Earth's places and governmental entities. I am sure that you can see the possibilities of such a thing and also that it would have needs for entry/article structure that was significantly different from Wiktionary or Wikipedia. I suppose the admins there will have to be concerned about surface-feature bias, not to mention terrestrial bias.

No attributive use. Only in encyclopedic dictionaries. Already in WP. I have seen no one advance a reason to treat official names of countries any differently than official names of other corporate entities. Better case for Ireland and Eire (in English). Perhaps it should go to RfV for attributive use citations while the proper noun proposals are being voted on or are in gestation at BP. DCDuring TALK 21:16, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Definitely keep! This is the common name in the UK for the country that (for political reasons) prefers to call itself "Ireland". We even have the common abbreviation ROI linked here. It's rather like the distinction between America and United States of America. Dbfirs 22:09, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Judging from the SC vote, I thought we got to ignore things like political realities ;-|)). Frankly, this is an example of why I wish we would avoid proper nouns except those meeting a strict attributive use sense. We end up involved in political disputes for no necessary reason, long before we have brought our basic ordinary-word (+idiom+proverb+inflection) translating dictionary up to a uniform standard of acceptability. I wonder whether United States of America would meet a strict attributive-use standard. If so, the citations would quite possibly not be the most patriotic ones. DCDuring TALK 22:50, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Ditto, I've never really understand why we need any countries here, even England, Germany whatever. But I think the status quo is to accept them. How about New Latin? It's basically Latin which is new. Some of our grammatical terms as well, nominative case; it's a case which is nominative, right? Mglovesfun (talk) 19:48, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Anyway kept per majority. I don't think DCDuring's argument is a WT:CFI one, anyway. Mglovesfun (talk) 10:13, 29 September 2009 (UTC)