Talk:Prince of Darkness

RFD discussion: January–March 2016

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Prince of Darkness

IMO, this entry and the translations should be deleted because this is not a word that means "the Devil" but a description (like "the forty-third president" or god of the silver bow, see Epithets in Homer) of any of a large number of real and fictional people, including the Devil. For example, Helene Marie Cruz, in An Eternal Affair (2012), says "Satan is a prince of darkness, and he doesn't roam alone; he takes his little band of demons with him." On the first page of Google Books results, I find the phrase used to describe Robert Novak more often than the Devil. Book titles:

• Prince of Darkness: The Untold Story of Jeremiah G. Hamilton, Wall Street's First Black Millionaire
• The Prince of Darkness: 50 Years Reporting in Washington (memoir by Robert D. Novak)
• Prince of Darkness, Richard Perle (who claims that the designation was first applied to him in error by someone who mistook him for the at the time similar-looking Novak)
• Sihanouk: Prince of Light, Prince of Darkness
• Karl Marx, Prince of Darkness
• Prince of Darkness: Antichrist and the New World Order (the Antichrist is not the Devil)
• The Prince of Darkness: Radical Evil and the Power of Good ("Chronicles the story of the Devil")

The plural and indefinite forms also exist:

• Princes of Darkness: The Saudi Assault on the West
• Princes of Darkness: The World of High Stakes Blackjack
• Mysterious Secrets of the Dark Kingdom, chapter 11: "The highest level of promotion for a human in the Dark Kingdom is in the Ruler of Darkness hierarchy as a Prince of Darkness. A Prince or Princess of Darkness is among the elite in the Dark Kingdom and has the privileges of a Power."
• A Select Library of the Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers (1887), page 363: "For they even say that Adam, the first man, was created by certain princes of darkness so that the light might be held by them lest it should escape."

- -sche (discuss) 19:19, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

You could call lots of people "King of the Jews", but it's still a synonym for "Jesus". A citations where it seems to be a name:

• 1744, Manly PLAIN-DEALER (pseud. [i.e. Edward Ward.]), Edward Ward, The Wooden World Dissected, ... The Third Edition, page 61

  The real Truth is, any one would guess him to have been a seven Years Apprentice to the Prince of Darkness; for he is never without a Pair of Tormentors in his Hand, and the Devil in his Mouth

• 1809, The Life and Acts of Saint Patrick: The Archbishop, Primate and Apostle of Ireland, page 57

  Nor let it be marvelled that strangers to the darkness of the true Light which illuminates every man entering this world, should be involved in the darkness of Magicians, who, with, blind and hardened heart worshipped the Prince of Darkness.

• 1873, The Century, page 238 full context

  And even when the Prince of Darkness entered their conceptions, it was as an official agent of Jehovah. Satan means 'adversary,' 'accuser;' he is the prosecutor in the trial of souls.

Smurrayinchester (talk) 20:47, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

It looks like the same descriptive phrase in all of those cases, to me, especially the first one where the capitalization is clearly part of a General Tendency to capitalize Things. Compare the second citation to "...who obeyed the Mayor of Chicago". "King of the Jews" (and "King of Jordan", etc) are also unidiomatic descriptors of a number of people. - -sche (discuss) 22:13, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

• Keep. Prince of Darkness is always a reference to the Devil. When the phrase is applied to other persons, the unambiguous intention is to compare those persons to the Devil. We know it's idiomatic because this association isn't at all apparent from the words that make it up. Note we have Prince of Wales and Prince of Peace for the same reason. The Prince of Wales isn't just a prince from Wales. It's the title of the heir to the British throne, something not apparent from the words. Just like the Prince of Darkness isn't just some prince from an insufficiently lighted realm. P Aculeius (talk) 23:01, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
• Keep: In absence of any further context, the term is generally assumed to be a reference to the devil. Purplebackpack89 23:42, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
• Keep and add a sense by extension for a person considered the most evil in a given setting. bd2412 T 13:36, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

• RFD kept per consensus. --Dan Polansky (talk) 08:35, 12 March 2016 (UTC)