Talk:Koh-i-Noor

@نعم البدل Regarding your edit here [1]: is this really likely to be from Urdu rather than Hindi, given that the jewel came from the Punjab (still part of India)? Equinox ◑ 22:11, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

@Equinox: I would say the fact that it came from Punjab, is the reason why the term is likely to be of Urdu origin, rather than Hindi. Besides English, Urdu was the major official language of the British Raj, and if you keep going back, it's likely you'd find the name is more associated with Urdu, than Hindi. Plus, the Hindi equivalent is कोहिनूर (kohinūr) / कोहेनूर (kohenūr). It's quite unlikely that "Koh-i-Noor" was a Hindi transliteration, as opposed to the Urdu, Persian equivalent with Izafat construction involved. نعم البدل (talk) 01:56, 16 September 2023 (UTC)

@نعم البدل: Thank you for your intelligent answer. I just get a little weird itch when I see someone delete and replace without an explanation. Okay. Equinox ◑ 01:57, 16 September 2023 (UTC)

Totally understandable, thank you! نعم البدل (talk) 02:05, 16 September 2023 (UTC)

This is most likely directly from Persian, which is reflected in most general reference dictionaries. I have updated the term here as such with the relevant cites. Gotitbro (talk) 08:44, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

@Gotitbro: It came in the hands of the British in the 19th century, past the period of the Persian language in the subcontinent. Most of the dictionaries seem to use the same definition (from Collins I believe). It's not far-fetched to believe the name came through Urdu, ultimately from Farsi. نعم البدل (talk) 08:21, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Merriam Webster, Random House, Online Etymology are all separate from Collins and we defer to sources when clearly available rather than engage in our WP:OR or WP:SYNTH and that is what we should follow here (till additional sources are brought to light). Gotitbro (talk) 08:35, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

@Gotitbro: Wikipedia policies don't apply to Wiktionaries. You can also attempt narrow down the etymology, especially considering dictionaries aren't particularly specific with their etymology. نعم البدل (talk) 14:07, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

I have been here long enough and been through enough RFE discussions to know that references become necessary and preferential when content disputes arise (ala WT:References and comparable to WP:OR and other relevant policies which are pretty universal across Wikimedia peojects) than any personal convictions or views that are held. @Equinox: pinging to further elaborate this. Gotitbro (talk) 14:42, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

As for the limited scope of dictionaries, you can bring other reliable sources which cover this word's entering into the European languages but their absense (as for a specific viewpoint) should not be considered a leeway to include contested material. Gotitbro (talk) 14:48, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

@Gotitbro: A couple of initial replies doesn't make it imperative it bring out Wikipedia policies. There are sources out there to say it comes from Urdu, if that's what you want? نعم البدل (talk) 17:03, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Sure if reliable sources exist please do bring them here.

And policies and guidelines of Wikimedia projects always need to be kept in purview from the get go, i.e. they are always imperative. Gotitbro (talk) 18:45, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

@Gotitbro Thanks for the ping, but I'm not in a position to help. OED has an entry, but no etymology given. Equinox ◑ 02:43, 20 January 2024 (UTC)