Talk:Israel firster
Latest comment: 4 years ago by -sche in topic RFD discussion: January–August 2020
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By PAM. If it were correctly defined, as more generally someone who puts Israel and its interests first in their priorities (etc), wouldn't this be SOP? One just as often hears of an google books:"America firster", google books:"Germany firster", google books:"Britain firster", etc. - -sche (discuss) 22:39, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
- I feel unhappy with the existing definition, which seems non-neutral. I'm not familiar with the usage of this term myself, but as far as I can gather from a very quick scan of some search results, the term is held, at least by some people, to be racist or anti-Semitic. I wouldn't have necessarily understood this from Israel + firster. If this is felt to be an important aspect of its usage then possibly we should say so somewhere, either in this separate entry, or at firster if similar connotations may apply to other "firster" phrases. Mihia (talk) 17:51, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
- Ah, the people you mention regard any criticism of Israel or its government or (as here) its [government's] supporters, including criticism by Jewish people, as anti-Semitism; that's not something specific to this word that would make it any more idiomatic, IMO, since they also regard other SOP phrases like "Israel lover" or "stooge for Israel", and even non-word concepts like the concept of boycotting Israeli businesses, as anti-Semitic. Quite likely our entry on anti-Semitism/anti-Semitic should mention (in usage notes, or perhaps a sense) that some people regard criticism of Israel or its government/policies/supporters/etc as anti-Semitic, but I don't think it makes phrases that have "Israel" in them any more or less idiomatic than they would otherwise be. - -sche (discuss) 21:05, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
- (see, for example, the one below) - -sche (discuss) 22:43, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
- Ah, the people you mention regard any criticism of Israel or its government or (as here) its [government's] supporters, including criticism by Jewish people, as anti-Semitism; that's not something specific to this word that would make it any more idiomatic, IMO, since they also regard other SOP phrases like "Israel lover" or "stooge for Israel", and even non-word concepts like the concept of boycotting Israeli businesses, as anti-Semitic. Quite likely our entry on anti-Semitism/anti-Semitic should mention (in usage notes, or perhaps a sense) that some people regard criticism of Israel or its government/policies/supporters/etc as anti-Semitic, but I don't think it makes phrases that have "Israel" in them any more or less idiomatic than they would otherwise be. - -sche (discuss) 21:05, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
- Deleted. - -sche (discuss) 16:25, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
- "Israel firster" is quite an anti-Semitic term. Modern anti-Semites like to claim a distinction between being against the homeland of the Jewish people and being against the Jewish people themselves. Such people kid themselves. There is no difference. If you are against the sovereign Jewish state (and homeland) of Israel, then you are by definition anti-Semitic. That would almost be like saying that you are "not anti-African, just anti-Africa". It truly is a distinction without a difference, especially when the Jewish homeland itself was granted to the Jewish people by God. Methinks that the extensive propagation of terms like "Zionazi", "Zionazism", "Zionification", and others simply demonstrate an instance where many anti-theistic bigots are trying to get away with anti-Semitism in the modern age without being called out and berated for it. If so, they are failing. Their efforts are entirely transparent.
- Of course, that doesn't mean that one cannot legitimately criticise the way that the Israeli government handles a specific matter. But to be against Israel as the Jewish homeland, and to be against Israel as a Jewish state with its own sovereignty, and to desire the end of such an entity... that is most certainly anti-Semitic. Tharthan (talk) 22:38, 5 August 2020 (UTC)