Talk:Glumse

Etymology

Glumse is not derived from Polish. Glumse is derived from earlier Low German glum = muddiness, also in English : glum = dim, or gloom Middle English gloum , to look morose, Anglo Saxon glumian from LG glum — This unsigned comment was added by 71.197.119.17 (talk).

Do you have a reference to support that theory? The Duden and a number of older dictionaries by authors familiar with Low German and with Polish (such as the 1835 Dokładny Słownik Polsko-Niemiecki / Ausführliches Polnisch-Deutsches Wörterbuch and Frischbier's 1882–83 Preussisches Wörterbuch) agree that the High German word derives from a Low German word which derives from Polish (or Kashubian). - -sche (discuss) 20:20, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

Like I wrote, glum is in English= dim, gloom, Anglo Saxon glumian" Low German glum. In Latin glomus , glomeris = ball. All these words are documented in written language many centuries and l o n g before the first glomza, glomzda. Glomza, glomzda only show up in 19.century German-Polish translation books :glomza Try www.books.google.com until 1800, (besides false readings of latin by the machine) there are not any books before 1800 with twarog, tvaroh, glomza, glomzda. Only when you google search by 1850 you will find German-Polish translation books 1. book by Christoph C. Mrongowius, who translates Glomsd Pr(ussian) Quarkkaese as twarog, glomzda 2. book by Samuel B. Linde, who translates Glom = schleimiges Wesen, Glombaty = plump, dick, grob
glomza = Pruskiego der Gloms Quark, Quarkkaese
So since the 19. century also shown as used in Polish (or Kashubian), yes, but - derived from - is plain "Quark-Unsinn" MfG (71.197.119.17 19:42, 5 April 2013 (UTC))

Yes, those words have existed for a long time, but the Polish/Kashubian only has to be older than Glumse, not than those other words. You still haven't explained the -se at the end, or about the considerable difference in meaning. By the way: I reverted your edit to the etymology mostly because of the link to Google Books, which contains large amounts of irrelevant items and isn't really appropriate in an etymology. The rest of it didn't make much sense the way it was worded, but I would have left it to someone more knowledgeable to make the call on that. Chuck Entz (talk) 22:54, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

The word glum in German language, earlier spelling gloum), therefore later words glum(m) or glom(m), also klum (Klumse) and variations can be traced in written sources at least since the 1300's (beglumen, glumen, glummen), Glummas- an unfrienly person and in Swedish gloemmen and Gloemmas. About your question about -se endings, I started making a list of -se ending words, then I came across this [1] , someone named D H Lee from a German university compiled German words, backwards, that is words ending with a-z not starting. From page 219 of this book till page 241 are German words ending with -se including Glumse on page 228 (more that 4000 German words ending - se). The www.google.books. search in earlier centuries shows a number of uses of the basic root word glum. As the Martin Luther bibles (on internet) from 1529, from 1570 ,XXXII, page 90, Hesekiel 32,2 (Ezekiel 32,2) glum (truebe, unclear, muddy, slimy, grim) is often used in connection with water, "truebest das wasser und machest seine stroeme glum". Klumse was used for Spalt- a split, crack and Klum-sack (a game with tied hanky (cheese cloth). Preussische Glumse is described in book of 1658. Glumse is a product of milk, set out or heated, to make sour and to seperate the water. Therefore it was put into a Glomsack or Glumsack (sack) or Glumskorb (basket) to press and drip the watery part out. When the milky stuff is done with its process (glumsing), it is now glumsig and it has (ge)glum(b)st (thus Glumse).

You also find several place names, like Glum (Lower Saxony, by Wardenburg, distric Oldenburg), Lake Glumso in Denmark, River Glomma, the Vigo Glum(r) Saga from Iceland (1300).

All these books throughout many centuries, now in google, while you find them irrelevant, I do not. Also searching google in earlier centuries, you find no books showing twarog, tvaroh before the 19th century German-Polish- Polish-German translation books, by Samuel Linde and Christoph C Mongovius, both born in Prussia. If you find books before 1648 describing Polish twarog or rathern Kashubian, please post here, thanks (71.197.119.17 23:20, 10 April 2013 (UTC))

Removal at Wiktionary resulted in Wiktionary dispensing incorrect info.

This was removed:

"GermanEtymologyFrom an earlier form Glums, from German Low German Gloms (“quark cheese”), meaning (de)pressed (milk) as in English glum or gloom (from A.S. glumian, M.E. glommen). Glommen, Falkenberg and variations thereof are also names of rivers or locations in Norway and Sweden. Martin Luther wrote about glum (murky) river waters in his Protestant Bible translation. Some dictionaries, both old and modern, incorrectly derive IT from a Polish or Kashubian word glomzda, glomza (“quark cheese”).[1][2][3] (Samuel Bogumił Linde's 1855 Słownik języka polskiego took the opposite view and attributed the Polish word to Prussian, citing Christoph Mrongovius,[4] but Mrongovius point out that Glomsd should be translated from Pr(ussian) = to Polish "glomzda" and not "glomza" as Linde wrote (referring to Mrongovious[5] as have later scholars.[2])"

Despite Glumse obviously being related to Germanic A.S. and M.E. glumian, glum, gloom, gloam Wikipedia got changed to where it now shows: Polish glomzda as being the source for the Germanic word Glumse. Germanic Aglo Saxon, Middle English and Protestant Bible by Martin Luther were written many centuries before Samual Linde and Chr. Mrongovious, were both Prussians. Linde was called to Warsaw to open a library.

Mrongovious and Linde both published German to Polish language dictionaries. Mrongovious translated Quarkkäse Glumse, Glumsd from Prussian Pr = to Polish Language glomzda. However Linde wrote glomza and Mrongovious in a later edition corrected Linde's Polish, that it correctly should be translated to glomzda- not glomza. This unfortunately gets twisted around by Wiktionary where it now seems as if the centuries later Slavic glomzda is the source of the German Glumse(50.173.166.172 00:56, 29 April 2014 (UTC))

By this point, I've comprehensively referenced the etymology. It's possible that all of the experts from the Duden and other lexicographical and etymological works, over the past two centuries, have been wrong while a lone IP from Sacramento knows The Truth™, but I am (to understate matters) sceptical. - -sche (discuss) 04:37, 17 August 2015 (UTC)