Talk:Brazilian tea

RFV discussion: March–December 2023

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Brazilian tea

Two plants: The first one's taxonomic name doesn't come up anywhere except Webster's 1913 dictionary. The second one is weird, as it claims it is used to make a drink in Austria. Good luck searching for this ... Van Man Fan (talk) 12:38, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

The first one was just a typo (or maybe a scan error) for L. pseudothea, but i couldnt turn up anything associating it with the phrase we're looking for. As for the other plant, .... i found the phrase "Brazilian tea" for related species,[1][2] but not this one. it might be a name for the genus as a whole, but I couldnt find anything listing Stachytarpheta mutabilis in particular, let alone defining it as the one and only Brazilian tea. —Soap— 13:16, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

We will not find credible cites that support any specific concoction being the one and only Brazilian tea. The most common referent for Brazilian tea seems to be maté (Ilex paraguariensis). It is hard to find uses for other referents in running text, though there are mentions galore, often in tables, in handbooks, dictionaries, enyclopedias, and other reference works. DCDuring (talk) 15:51, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

Contributors to our discussions have opined against use in tables as providing valid cites. DCDuring (talk) 17:44, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

There is no mention of "running text" being a requirement for valid attestation in WT:ATTEST. DCDuring (talk) 15:45, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

I have substantially altered the entry, adding mate as a definition, and making the Lippia and Stachytarpheta definitions subsenses of a more general definition. I can find support for a Stachytarpheta definition, but not for a Lippia definition, though L. pseudo-thea is native to Brazil and used for an infusion. IMHO, the Lippia def. really needs {{rfv-sense}}, but the others do not. I would claim widespread use for the mate def. DCDuring (talk) 18:34, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

• Boy, I just love RFVing taxonomic terms like this, as Wiktionary does so damn well at fleshing them out! Long live DCDuring! Van Man Fan (talk) 22:25, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

  What you would probably love even more is citing, correcting, referencing, and illustrating vernacular terms like this. The biggest frustration is that use of the terms in tables is not accepted as citing the entry. DCDuring (talk) 13:48, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

We had three senses:

1. Lippia pseudo-thea (syn. Lantana pseudo-thea), native to Brazil, used as a substitute for tea.
2. Stachytarpheta mutabilis and Stachytarpheta jamaicensis, used for adulterating tea, and also, in Austria, for preparing a beverage.
3. Maté, a beverage made from the leaves of yerba mate (Ilex paraguariensis).

The first one had only two cites; the latter two had 3+ cites each, although they may not be idiomatic (they may just be referring to it as a kind of tea associated with Brazil). If we combine the first two definitions like this, it has the requisite number of cites, ignoring the question of whether they're idiomatic. Cited? - -sche (discuss) 19:26, 22 December 2023 (UTC)