Talk:미끄럽다

Etymology

This appears to be a compound: perhaps some variant of 밀 (mil, “water”) + possessive infix -s- + 그렇— (geureot-, “to be like that”) + —ㅂ— (-b-, adjectival suffix)? ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 01:10, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

Interesting theory. This is what the inbuilt Korean dictionary of Mac says:

〔√믯[滑]＋글(접사)＋업(접사)-다. ➙믯그럽다(百聯 20) / 믯그러워(杜詩初 25:41)＞믯글업다(譯語補 5)＞미끄럽다〕

This is related to 미꾸라지 (mikkuraji, “loach”), which has the following passage:

〔√믯[滑]＋글(접사)＋아지(접사). ➙밋그라지(物名 2:4)＞미꾸라지〕

Regarding 믯 (muys, “*slippery”), Seo Jeongbeom's Korean Etymological Dictionary says:

‘믯’의 말음 ㅅ은 사잇소리다. 그렇게 본다면 ‘구리’는 ‘굴+이’로 분석되며 명사다. ‘믜’는 믇>믈>믈이>므이>믜의 변화로서, 물(水)의 뜻을 지닌다.

also proposing a relationship with 물 (mul, “water”). Wyang (talk) 03:37, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

• Aha, so the root is not directly 밀 (mil, “water”) + possessive infix -s- outright, but at least a root of 믯 (muys, “*slippery”), derived from 밀 (mil, “water”).

For the latter portion, 글 (geul) as just an "affix" seems quite vague. There's the clear example shown in 그립다 (geuripda) with adjectivizing infix -b-, and a lack of clarity in the Mac dictionary. Are there other qualitative verbs that end in 그럽다? ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 06:57, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

글 seems to be an ideophone (擬態語) suffix. There are a lot of adjectives ending in 그럽다:

• 너그럽다 (neogeureopda, “generous”),
• 징그럽다 (jinggeureopda, “loathsome”),
• 싱그럽다 (singgeureopda, “fresh”),
• 향그럽다 (hyanggeureopda, “fragrant”),
• 듣그럽다 (deutgeureopda, “unpleasant to the ear”),
• 누그럽다 (nugeureopda),
• 자그럽다 (jageureopda),
• 서그럽다 (seogeureopda),
• 상그럽다 (sanggeureopda),
• 시그럽다 (sigeureopda).

A lot of adjectives ending in 끄럽다 can be traced to (s) + —글— (-geul-) + —업— (-eop-) + —다 (-da):

• 부끄럽다 (bukkeureopda, “shameful”),
• 시끄럽다 (sikkeureopda, “noisy”),
• 매끄럽다 (maekkeureopda, “smooth”),
• 껄끄럽다 (kkeolkkeureopda),
• 바끄럽다 (bakkeureopda).

I suspect 둥글다 (dunggeulda, “round”) may contain this as well. Wyang (talk) 07:26, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

• Two thoughts arise for me, after reading this.

1. Is this 글 also the root of 그렇— (geureot-, “to be like that”)? If so, is this essentially 그 (geu) + ㄹ (l) as a suffix?
2. Is it correct to analyze 그럽다 as 그렇— (geureot-, “to be like that”) + —ㅂ— (-b-, adjectival suffix)?

TIA, ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 20:07, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

Really interesting possibility; the origin of —글— (-geul-) seems obscure, but a relationship with 그 (geu) is possible. 그럽다 would be analysed as 글 (geul) (which can be either part of the root or an affix) + —업— (-eop-, adjectival suffix). I had a look in the Middle Korean reference books I have and could not find any reference to the root-forming element —글— (-geul-). It seems to me that —글— (-geul-) could be a long-obsolete ideophone suffix, which gave rise to Middle Korean 擬態語 roots 징글 (jinggeul), 믯글 (muitgeul), 너글 (neogeul) (< 넓— (neol-)), 시끌 (sikkeul), to which —업— (-eop-, adjectival suffix) was added to produce the modern —그럽다 words. Some evidence for the ideophonic nature of these roots is in the expressive adjectives:

• 너글너글하다 (neogeulleogeulhada) = 너그럽다 (neogeureopda)
• 미끌미끌하다 (mikkeulmikkeulhada), 미끌거리다 (mikkeulgeorida) = 미끄럽다 (mikkeureopda)
• 매끌매끌하다 (maekkeulmaekkeulhada), 매끌거리다 (maekkeulgeorida) = 매끄럽다 (maekkeureopda, “smooth, sleek”) (this is the ablaut form of the above)
• 징글맞다 (jinggeulmatda), 징글징글하다 (jinggeuljinggeulhada) = 징그럽다 (jinggeureopda)
• 쟁글쟁글하다 (jaenggeuljaenggeulhada) = 쟁그랍다 (jaenggeurapda)
• 싱글싱글 (singgeulsinggeul) ~ 싱글벙글 (singgeulbeonggeul, “smilingly”), 싱글거리다 (singgeulgeorida, “beam with gentle smile”) vs 싱그럽다 (singgeureopda, “fresh, lively”)
• 시끌시끌하다 (sikkeulsikkeulhada), 시끌벅적하다 (sikkeulbeokjeokhada), 시끌덤벙하다 (sikkeuldeombeonghada) = 시끄럽다 (sikkeureopda)

It would be part of the ideophone allofam of *-kuC-, where the "elements" —근— (-geun-), —금— (-geum-) and —긋— (-geut-) also belong. For example:

• Root 미끈 (mikkeun, “slippery”): 미끈미끈 (mikkeunmikkeun), 미끈거리다 (mikkeun'georida), 미끈하다 (mikkeunhada), etc.
• Root 미끗 (mikkeut, “slippery”): 미끗하다 (mikkeuthada)
• Root 싱긋 (singgeut, “smiling”): 싱긋거리다 (singgeutgeorida), 싱긋빙긋 (singgeutbinggeut), 싱긋싱긋 (singgeutsinggeut), 싱긋하다 (singgeuthada)

And the common *ku in the allofam may be related to 그 (geu).

P.S. Seo considers the kur(i) in 미꾸라지 (mikkuraji, “loach”) and its ancestor 믯구리 (muitguri) to be related to 개구리 (gaeguri, “frog”) and 머구리 (meoguri, “frog”). I'm not very convinced. Wyang (talk) 04:39, 24 August 2016 (UTC)