Talk:世話

お世話になりました has been added to derived terms here because it is not just a mere form but one which has become a set phrase, a common expression. Such set phrases warrant entries of their own on Wiktionary.

It could also be regarded as a form of お世話になる or 世話になる I suppose. Those both have their own entries in WWWJDIC. — hippietrail (talk) 04:41, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

@Hippietrail A few points here:

1. 世話, お世話, 世話になる, お世話になる are all vocabulary items. They are lemmas and they do exist in dictionaries.
2. お世話になりました is a common phrase, which is not its lemma form. Phrasebook entries can be included but only explicitly as phrasebook entries, no matter how common they. Besides, phrases don't have to appear in the past tense form.
3. In summary, having a phrasebook entry is a bonus, you can't request entries like "tickets, please" or "I'm very obliged to you" and phrases or forms cannot be related terms to normal vocabulary entries, they are phrases or forms.
4. I may create an entry for お世話になりました if you so insist but as I said, as a phrasebook and form entry.

@Eirikr please comment here if you can. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 07:46, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

Thoughts:

• お世話になります・なりました etc. aren't terms per se, as Anatoli notes. This is usage of 世話 in an idiomatic phrase.
• お世話になります・なりました etc. would be good to show in usexes.
• お世話になる might be good to have under an ====Idioms==== header in the 世話 entry, and as a lemma entry itself under an ===Idiom=== header. That idiom entry might then be categorized to appear in the phrasebook.

Would that work for you all? ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │ Tala við mig 17:24, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

@Eirikr I've added a usex here (the translation may not be perfect but there are various ways to translate it) and changed some other things. Something's gone wrong with the conjugation, although I used the same pattern as in ご覧になる, could you take a look, please? Never mind that, it should have been on the verb entry, not noun. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 22:36, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

Yes I did overlook that this was the past tense form when I added it but I learned it from Japanese speakers and then from several Japanese learning sites and forums when I searched it.

Only then did I discover there was also a present tense form, at which point I found that somebody has in fact already added it to Wiktionary and it wasn't linked to the other forms.

I'm not an expert but I would've thought of it in the same category as Japanese set phrases like "tadaima kaerimashita" and "okaerinasai". Even "konnichiwa" can be seen as a plain old phrase but is usually thought of as a special set phrase treated like a word of its own.

I thought at the time that I had found the present form in some online dictionaries by the way, but I've lost power and internet several times since then.

Anyway thanks for discussing this! (-: — hippietrail (talk) 00:25, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

@Hippietrail No problem. I've made お世話になりました for you, LOL. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 01:10, 22 April 2014 (UTC)