Talk:そい

Pronunciation Data

@Poketalker Where did you get the pronunciation data for it? MiguelX413 (talk) 00:18, 15 September 2019 (UTC)

@MiguelX413: it's made up. Not an expert at IPA, but this would be a close approximation to the [soj] pronunciation from the JLect entry. But if you want to change it back to [soj], I'm not stopping you. To be sure, the pronunciation templates from previous revision are hidden for your convenience. ～ POKéTalker（═◉═） 03:40, 15 September 2019 (UTC)

@Poketalker: is there no way to add in your own IPA into the template? MiguelX413 (talk) 06:43, 15 September 2019 (UTC)

@MiguelX413: in regards to {{ja-pron}}, the template itself is dependent on Module:ja-pron, therefore it's hardcoded and the IPA values are fixed. If you can, ask @Erutuon, Nardog, Suzukaze-c, or anyone expert in modules to help you out with adding regional pronunciations. Dōmo, ～ POKéTalker（═◉═） 18:07, 15 September 2019 (UTC)

The transcriptions [sòí] and [soj] don't seem all that different to me. One has accent and the other doesn't, one shows a semivowel version of the vowel in the other one. But perhaps there's more significance to these differences; I don't know the dialect. — Eru·tuon 18:18, 15 September 2019 (UTC)

@Erutuon: The former is not the IPA transcription provided by Module:ja-pron but the Pitch Accent illustration. the IPA provided by Module:ja-pron is [so̞i̥] and the one provided by Jlect is /soj/. MiguelX413 (talk) 20:01, 15 September 2019 (UTC)

@MiguelX413: Oh, I see. w:Kagoshima dialect#High-vowel deletion gives more information on the origin of this word's pronunciation. The final devoicing in [so̞i̥] might have been an error (w:Japanese phonology#Devoicing doesn't mention devoicing after a vowel); removing it, I'm not sure if [so̞i] and [soj] are supposed to be all that different, but it might be a good idea to stick to the exact pronunciation in Jlect. — Eru·tuon 02:30, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

@Erutuon: Hmmmmmmmm, w:Kagoshima dialect#Vowels does have /o̞/ as the o sound in Kagoshima dialect but I don't think necessary for this broad transcription, I think it's fine how it is, and I was wondering if regional phonology could be added to the modules, since you were referred to as being skilled with them. MiguelX413 (talk) 02:40, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

@MiguelX413: Well, I'm skilled at Lua, but not at Japanese dialects (I just read Wikipedia articles), so I don't know what changes would need to be made. — Eru·tuon 02:51, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

@Erutuon: I see, maybe the option to insert one's own IPA with the module/template, and I'm not sure if the IPA values could be changed if its for a different dialect, as in, a different list for a different dialect? MiguelX413 (talk) 02:54, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

The devoicing diacritic was generated by |dev=2 in {{ja-pron}}, which I believe was a mistake on Poketalker's part. As far as standard Japanese goes, scholars haven't agreed on whether [oi], [ai], etc. are two syllables or just diphthongs (or whether the syllable is a useful concept in Japanese phonology, for that matter). (I don't know whether the same is true for Kagoshima dialect or what JLect's position in the debate is, though.) I agree we could use less phonetic detail in {{ja-pron}}. Nardog (talk) 03:09, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

@Nardog: I actually like having phonetic detail in it 🤔. I just think having configurability for dialects would be cool too. MiguelX413 (talk) 17:41, 16 September 2019 (UTC)