Talk:პარავს

RFD discussion: August–October 2020

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პარავს

This is a colloquial, spoken, incorrect form of the verb ჰპარავს. It is not correct grammatically since it's a ditransitive verb and has 3rd person indirect object and the root starts with პ which meets all the conditions for the compulsory 3rd person indirect object marker. Thus, I request it's deletion and instead creating a page for ჰპარავს. Solarkoid (talk) 03:56, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

We have entries for "colloquial, spoken, incorrect" forms, so that's not a reason for deletion. By all means there should be an entry for the standard, "correct" form, but the current form should stay, with proper labeling- if it's in actual use. Chuck Entz (talk) 05:18, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Reasonable. So, @Chuck Entz should I just delete the request for deletion code and just write colloquial? I will do that but I also need to know how I can mark/tell people it's incorrect form and correct one should be ჰპარავს if they are writing something formal/needing grammatical correctness? Thank you -Solarkoid (talk) 10:39, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

I'm still skeptical though. I did say it was a colloquial, incorrect form but its like not the only one that does that. Literally all ditransitive verbs act like that. In spoken Georgian there is a tendency to remove 3rd person indirect object marker. If it's a trend and can be learned and followed normally, is the re a need for another page on it. If so we could have a lot of pages like this. Solarkoid (talk) 13:50, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Even if most speakers of Georgian will agree that this form is nonstandard, the question here is whether it is in actual use. If so, we should include it; see WT:CFI. If not, it should be deleted, following the procedure of WT:RFVN.  --Lambiam 16:18, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Understandable. As I said, this form is one of many in terms of grammar trends, but when compared to ჰპარავს, it is definitely more common, even though in exams it is deemed as incorrect. I guess its concluded then? If you will agree that it should be kept, then so be it. Solarkoid (talk) 04:58, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

There are several different labels you could add to the entry to indicate nonstandardness. You could even write a usage note. DTLHS (talk) 04:59, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Then it's decided. I'll remove the RFD and work on the page. -Solarkoid (talk) 13:54, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Directed at @Solarkoid, I don't know anything about Georgian actually except for its phylum and type or kind of grammar and didn't edit it here so far but as you said that it was a spoken form, one may rethink providing another pronunciation at the entry of the correct verb form instead of keeping this entry. I looked for the verb in an Internet search but I'm not sure whether other words are written the same and were therefore confounded. If the form is written like this too, it should have to stay there with the appropiate denotation. I have got some doubts about including grammar errors unless they are so-called non-standard, which is in my view distinct from just colloquialness, or frequency aspects of usage allow for it. But that was already pointed out towards confirmation. HeliosX (talk) 00:27, 3 October 2020 (UTC)