Talk:धय

@Bhagadatta

Should this be treated as an alternative form of the धंय (dhãy) entry that you created? The Kannada script spelling at

https://archive.org/details/dli.viswakonkani.1/page/15/mode/1up

ಧಂಯ್ matches the Kannada script spelling at धंय (dhãy).

However, the Romi spelling at both entries differs from the Romi spelling in Dantas

https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Modern_English_to_Konkani_Dictionary_-_Isidore_Dantas.pdf&page=362

which is Dhoim Kutchkutch (talk) 09:25, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

@Kutchkutch: Yes, fixed. I remember picking up the spelling "dhaim" from some tiatr's transcript... but it is obvious that standard Latin script Konkani reserves the a for the ā sound. I let the Kannada spelling in this entry stay because it represents धय, so maybe it is written ಧಯ in areas where Konkani is written with the Kannada script. I'm also going to delete जेवाण (jevāṇ) unless you wish to make a case for its existence (interestingly, searching for it on Google gives Marathi results, so maybe it's an altform or some dialectal variation in Marathi? -- 𝓑𝓱𝓪𝓰𝓪𝓭𝓪𝓽𝓽𝓪^{(𝓽𝓪𝓵𝓴)} 09:39, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

@Bhagadatta: I looked at the Google results for जेवाण, and if you've never heard anyone say it, then I would characterise this term as Maharashtrian Konkani rather than Marathi, and we haven't decided how to treat Maharashtrian Konkani. The spelling is documented in Grierson at

https://books.google.com/books?id=x2Ais_HpKo4C&pg=PA196

as the Kuḍāḷī dialect of Konkani.

In the Ahirani dictionary {{R:ahr:RSS}},

https://archive.org/details/Cover1_201708/Final%20Complete%20Kosha_082.jpg

the Ahirani spelling is given as जेवनं.

In the Shodhganga thesis on Ahirani, the word is given as jewan = जेवन

In the Shodhganga thesis on the Varhadi dialect, the word is given as ǰewan = जेवन. Kutchkutch (talk) 10:31, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

@Kutchkutch: Wikipedia does not consider Maharashtrian Konkani (of which Kuḍāḷī is likely one) to be a part of the Konkani dialect continuum. Which L2 header do we put जेवाण under? -- 𝓑𝓱𝓪𝓰𝓪𝓭𝓪𝓽𝓽𝓪^{(𝓽𝓪𝓵𝓴)} 11:48, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

@Bhagadatta: Perhaps looking at File:Geographic Distribution of Native Konkani Speakers.png and File:Konkani_languages.png might be helpful. The description for the Venn diagram is:

A Venn diagram of the various languages and dialects in the Konkani family, according to the ISO 639 classification. In red brackets are the ISO 639 codes. Some linguists consider the dialects of Maharashtrian Konkani to be a part of Marathi, hence a yellow line around these two. The classification of various dialects inside [kok] is quite subjective and can vary from source to source.

My understanding is that the Wiktionary code kok refers to the oval labelled Konkani (Goan), which includes both Goan Konkani and Canarese Konkani. Maharashtrian Konkani has its own oval with the ISO 639-3 code knn. Given this situation Maharashtrian Konkani could have its own L2 header, but the problem with that is जेवाण (jevāṇ) and possibly धय (dhay) would be the only entries in that L2 header until there's more data. Malvani language is perhaps the most prominent variety of Maharashtrian Konkani. It does sound a bit different from both Marathi and Goan Konkani + Canarese Konkani. Kutchkutch (talk) 12:37, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

@Kutchkutch: Okay, kok does refer to Konkani the "macrolanguage" so I suppose a temporary solution would be to put in {{lb|kok|Maharashtrian}}? But it conflicts with what info this IP provided in their drive-by entry that it's "Southern". Maybe we could do {{lb|kok|Maharashtrian|Canarese}}? -- 𝓑𝓱𝓪𝓰𝓪𝓭𝓪𝓽𝓽𝓪^{(𝓽𝓪𝓵𝓴)} 13:58, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

@Bhagadatta: It would be much easier if the Wiktionary code kok refers the macrolanguage so that all varieties of ‘Konkani’ can be subsumed under it.

At मालवणी बोलीभाषा it says:

मालवणी म्हणून ओळखली जाणारी ही बोली मूळ कुडाळी किंवा कुडाळदेशकर भाषा आहे.

Regarding, ‘Southern’, it does say at Malvani language:

Malvani is spoken in the southern part of Konkan Vibhag, i.e. Sindhudurg district […] It is very famous language in the southern Konkan region of Maharashtra state

कोकण विभाग refers to the Konkan division. Since, ‘Southern’ might either refer to Canarese Konkani or Sindhudurg district being the southernmost part of the Konkan division / कोकण विभाग is {{lb|kok|Maharashtrian|Canarese}} is fine. Kutchkutch (talk) 18:41, 4 February 2021 (UTC)