Talk:жорсткі

This word seems to correspond to жёсткий, while Ukrainian жорсто́кий would correspond to жесто́кий. Do you know what's up? --Per utramque cavernam (talk) 09:37, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

@Wikitiki89 --Per utramque cavernam (talk) 14:22, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

It seems the two words merged in Belarusian, since it has both meanings. --WikiTiki89 14:28, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

@Per utramque cavernam: By the way, you never need to add requests for inflection tables for Belarusian adjectives, because all you need to do is take the accented headword and separate off the ending, as shown in the documentation of the template {{be-decl-adj}}. There are never any further complications with ordinary Belarusian adjectives. --WikiTiki89 14:32, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

@Wikitiki89: Oh, all right, I'll do that. Thanks.

Ok, but what's surprising to me is that Vasmer makes no mention of the Ukrainian forms with р; isn't it part of the original consonant cluster? Or is it on the contrary a Ukrainian/Belarusian innovation?

And besides, he doesn't really elaborate on the relationship between жёсткий and жесто́кий; (or жорстки́й and жорсто́кий)? --Per utramque cavernam (talk) 14:45, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

Edit: Nevermind, he does mention Ukrainian жерсть (žerstʹ) at Vasmer, Max (1964–1973) “жесть”, in Oleg Trubachyov, transl., Этимологический словарь русского языка [Etymological Dictionary of the Russian Language] (in Russian), Moscow: Progress. --Per utramque cavernam (talk) 14:45, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

@Guldrelokk Hello. Do you know more about this? Per utramque cavernam 11:13, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

@Per utramque cavernam: It may have been influenced by шорсткий ‘шероховатый, шершавый’, from шерсть as per ESUM.

Note that both жорсткий and жерсть, originally a loanword, have the -р- because of the folk-etymological association also existing in Russian. Guldrelokk (talk) 01:28, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

Wait, it’s a Belarusian entry. The explanation of the -р- is the same. As for the semantics: *žestъkъ and *žestokъ (compare e. g. Serbo-Croatian žestok) were Proto-Slavic variants, probably reflecting a partial transfer of a u-stem into o-stems: *žestъ ~ *žestu → *žestъkъ (all u-stem adjectives were augmented with *-ko- at some point), *žestъ ~ *žesta → *zestokъ (also *žestъ > OCS жестъ). They were synonymous in Old Russian also жестъкъ ~ жестокъ, Belorussian lost one variant, in Russian the two differentiated. Guldrelokk (talk) 01:56, 23 December 2018 (UTC)