Talk:Гагарин

Name

@Atitarev, Cinemantique, Wikitiki89 Am I right in guessing that Гагарин as a town is declined adjectivally? It makes a difference in the instrumental (-ым vs. -ом). Benwing2 (talk) 22:59, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

On Google, "под Гагариным" gets slightly more hits than "под Гагарином". The preposition под is more likely to be used with city/town (in the sense of "in the area of") than with the name of a famous astronaut. So it's too close to call based on that. --WikiTiki89 23:18, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

@Benwing2 Good pickup. As a city name, Гагарин should be declined as a normal noun. Same with Ростов, Киров, Львов, Калинин (former for Тверь), Царицын, etc. any place name based on surnames with -ов/-ев/-ёв or -ин/-ын. @Wikitiki89 Both variants are possible with place names. With Ростов, Киров, Львов "-ым" would even sound weird. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 23:39, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

@Atitarev: You just contradicted yourself. Either "both variants are possible for place names" or "Гагарин should be declined as a normal noun"; so which is it? --WikiTiki89 23:43, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

(Before E/C) @Benwing2, Cinemantique, Wikitiki89, Wanjuscha I think we should split city names from surnames in declensions. -ом would definitely be preferred/recommended/standard way for place names. It doesn't apply to neuters, only masculine place names.

(After E/C) I know, sorry Wikitiki89, see my comment above. -ым is used with city names, especially not so famous perhaps, but it's not standard. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 23:47, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

@Benwing2 Киров has a correct split in declensions between the surname and the city name - instrumental singular are different. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 00:24, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

@Benwing2 You don't have to do all the work in Russian entries. It was an omission on my side too. If you make an example declension table, which includes both city name and surname, e.g. in Киров, we can copy the logic to others, otherwise, we can have separate tables, as in the same entry. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 01:20, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

@Atitarev, Cinemantique, Wikitiki89 I think you should go ahead and do things the way they're done on Гагарин or Киров, either way looks good to me. Benwing2 (talk) 03:44, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

@Benwing2: By the way, why is the feminine instrumental form Гагариною labeled "rare"? It's not any rarer than the -ою forms of any other feminine instrumental nouns or adjectives. Either they should all be marked consistently as rare, or they should all be left unmarked (and I prefer the latter). --WikiTiki89 03:50, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

I think I marked it rare because that's what it says in Zaliznyak. Specifically, footnote 2 on p. 63: "В этой форме (в отличие от форм Р., Д., П. ед.) имеется, кроме того, параллельный вариант с окончаннем -ою (-ею). В современном языке этот вариант употребляется очень редко." Benwing2 (talk) 03:57, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

@Atitarev, Cinemantique, Wikitiki89 Cinemantique and Anatoli, what do you think? Benwing2 (talk) 03:58, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Гагарин is still declined as a surname with "-ым" in the city table. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 04:21, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Fixed. Benwing2 (talk) 04:25, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. The ending -ою with surnames IS rarer compared to adjectives. --04:42, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Etymology

Is this name related to the word гагара? 173.88.246.138 22:38, 2 March 2022 (UTC)