Reconstruction talk:Proto-Japonic/misV
Latest comment: 1 year ago by Eirikr in topic STOP MOVING THIS.
Origins unclear, may be from Chinese
[edit]See w:ja:味噌#歴史, in particular this section (emphasis mine):
起源
味噌の起源には二つの説がある[1]。
- 語源も『未だ醤にならないもの』という意味の未醤から平安時代に味醤、味曽、味噌となった。
- 701年の大宝律令に未醤が課税対象としてあらわれ、「主醤」という醤を管理する役職の記述もある[1]。
References
[edit]
- ↑ 1.0 1.1 お味噌の由来は2つの説がある マルカワみそ
- ^ 「お味噌の歴史」お味噌の原点 山印醸造
I don't think we can definitively state that this is from Proto Japonic.
‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 19:26, 14 June 2019 (UTC)
Answer to the incomplete etymology question "Who reconstructs this for Proto-Japonic?"
[edit]I think the creator of this page (Kwékwlos) does his own reconstructions (doesn't use other reconstructions). And since there's Ryukyuan data this is probably why this was reconstructed to PJ. Chuterix (talk) 00:50, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
- My underlying point is that, if this is a clear borrowing from Chinese, reconstructing this at the Proto level for Japonic looks premature. This is an easily manufactured and shelf-stable foodstuff, an important flavor enhancer, and the object of much trade, so it's not surprising that local cultures would all have this. We would ideally have evidence that this was even around at the Proto stage, which (so far as I'm aware) is currently lacking.
- FWIW, the ZH WP article at zh:w:味噌 also mentions a possible derivation from Chinese 未醬／未酱. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 02:03, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
STOP MOVING THIS.
[edit]@Chuterix, PLEASE STOP MOVING THIS PAGE. Your reconstructions are problematic. Constant moving is a mess. There is no evidence for this at the Proto level anyway. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 22:47, 9 June 2023 (UTC)