Reconstruction talk:Proto-Germanic/ūt

The Derived Terms

Anyone else think the Derived Terms list is a little long? Anglish4699 (talk) 20:14, 23 November 2017 (UTC)

@Rua, instead of simply offhandedly deleting the data @Leasnam put together, it would have been better if you could have merged it into the existing entry. --Victar (talk) 03:29, 24 November 2017 (UTC)

Was it not already there? —Rua (mew) 12:29, 24 November 2017 (UTC)

@Rua: There were several missing descendants, as seen in diff. --Victar (talk) 17:04, 24 November 2017 (UTC)

Vowel length

I am second-guessing the vowel length of this reconstruction. It perhaps was originally *ut (along with *utai and *utanē), where original PIE *ud is continued uninterrupted, but had developed into the allative of this ternary paradigm, so that a separate **uti didn't have to be created.

The long vowel that shows up later is part of a general North-West Germanic lengthening of monosyllabic short vowels: *hwa(z) > OE hwā, *bi > OE bī, but not Gothic **bei.

Hence, when Germanic *ut had become North-West *ūt, the locative and ablative forms were reformed as *ūtai and *ūtanē.

Otherwise the long vowel is unexplainable for Proto-Germanic itself. Anglom (talk) 06:41, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

Did the lengthening occur in closed syllables, though? —Rua (mew) 09:35, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

That does not seem likely, based on OE æt, but that means the long vowel isn't explainable.

If instead the form was originally *ūtą, (as I believe now that *inn was actually *inną), from earlier *ud-nóm, then we would have a second example of unstressed lengthening of short u before a dental, as also seen with *hlūdaz, < *klu-tós. But we would have to find more examples to determine whether or not this is an actual sound change. Anglom (talk) 22:02, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

ūʒ

Hello, can someone tell me why the word in old high german and middle high german are transcribed with a "ʒ" ? Humfeid (talk) 17:51, 26 November 2022 (UTC)

I suppose the individual who added it wanted it to be shown as such. I've adjusted it. Leasnam (talk) 18:01, 26 November 2022 (UTC)