Module talk:zh/data/dial-syn/明年

Philippine Hokkien

@Mlgc1998 Hey, just wondering about the Philippine Hokkien entries you added here last year. I know 下年, could you explain where you heard 新年, 明年, and 正年 to mean "next year", and how they are pronounced? Thanks. --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 05:32, 13 December 2020 (UTC)

@Mar vin kaiser: I added 下年 since someone just asked me why it's not there in the list yet and that there's no Hokkien pronunciation in that page yet and I did just remembered that it is the common one people tend to say. I think last year, I was adding terms by looking at the other Hokkien dialects especially in Quanzhou if the terms they used were terms I ever heard of before. I think 新年 (sin-ni) is when old women or old people say in regards to talking about the next year during around discussing New Years or Christmas topics. Then, I think I remember old women also say 明年 (moa-ni) and 正年 (chiaⁿ-ni) as part of conversations I'd hear before. The expressions that I remember that still echo in my mind is they said like: ah, moa-ni lai lo ah! 啊, 明年來咯啊! (oh, the next year has come!); ah chiaⁿ-ni lo, chiaⁿ-ni lo! 啊, 正年咯, 正年咯! when they want to say like: (oh, we'll do it next year, we'll do it next year!) Then, I think 下年 can also be used in that way too, like: e-ni lo, e-ni lo! 下年咯, 下年咯! implying for: (we'll do it next year, we'll do it next year!)--Mlgc1998 (talk) 01:05, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

@Mlgc1998: Could you verify 明年 (moa-ni) and 正年 (chiaⁿ-ni) with elders that you know? --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 10:28, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

@Mar vin kaiser: I don't have access to the original elderly people that I likely heard it from long ago, but I asked the boomer gen ones around me who talk in hokkien daily and messaged a couple younger millennial people if it means anything to them if they heard it before. one boomer gen reacted when I asked if "moa-ni" means anything to him, he said, "ho, moa-ni si e-ni la" (好,明年是下年啦), then for "chiaⁿ-ni", he said, "chiaⁿ-ni si this year la" (正年是 this year 啦). And then, the other one I asked said this about "moa-ni", "moa-ni si tai-oan-khiuⁿ la" (明年是台灣腔啦), then for "chiaⁿ-ni", "chiaⁿ-ni si... foremost year" (正年是... foremost year). Then, a couple of millennials I messaged said that they don't know those terms upon just hearing them, besides the idea that 正年 (chiaⁿ-ni) reminded one of them of 正月 (chiaⁿ-ge̍h), but both of them also aren't regular native speakers and just working from what they remember hearing from their families who regularly speak it just as most millennial filchi do. From this, I think 明年 (moa-ni) might be like an alternative then that could also technically be understood when heard but not the most common. Then, 正年 (chiaⁿ-ni) is a bit confusing, maybe the ones I heard before were trying to shorten it from 正月年 (chiaⁿ-ge̍h-ni), tho a bit ambiguous.--Mlgc1998 (talk) 18:07, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

@Mlgc1998: What we need for inclusion here in the dialectal module is actual usage. So far, the only one I can see to be in actual usage is "下年", and I already added the POJ in the entry. We need people saying that they regularly use 明年 and 正年, and it can't be that they only guess what it means. So I'm gonna remove the two terms from the module for now. Anyway, this talk page will be open for any updates. --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 01:36, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

新年 in Philippine Hokkien

@Mlgc1998 I'm wondering why you added 新年 in Philippine Hokkien. Mar vin kaiser (talk) 01:15, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

@Mar vin kaiser I asked my parents before and awhile ago, what "sin-nî" is and first idea sure was new year, but asked them if could also be like ě-nî 下年 or môa-nî 明年. he said, mǎ sǐ ě-tsuè 嘛是會做. it will likely depend on the context of the sentence in a figurative sense, like tǐ-sî beh tshòng? 底時欲創? sin-nî lâi, gún tshòng. 新年來，阮創。one may or may not be referring to the new years occassion or the whole next year in general instead. Mlgc1998 (talk) 14:46, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

@Mlgc1998: If it requires a "來", then 新年 doesn't mean "New Year". For it to mean "New Year", if we replace 我下年欲去美國 to 我新年欲去美國, it should mean the same thing. But does it? --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 15:16, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

@Mar vin kaiser I read this: "我新年欲去美國" "Guá sin-nî beh khì Bí-kok" to my dad and asked him what it means. He said, "next year pupunta ka sa US?" Mlgc1998 (talk) 15:26, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

@Mlgc1998: I'm wondering whether your earlier questioning has affected the way he understands the sentence. Because I would think that they would understand it as I'm going to US on New Year's Day. --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 15:35, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

@Mar vin kaiser well it was a few mins ago and he just got home and watches chinese news tv on the couch. the dialectal synonyms list also lists Quanzhou and Lukang to be using it. Mlgc1998 (talk) 15:43, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

@Mlgc1998: Could you ask him if people in our Filipino Chinese community would naturally say it like that? Another thing is that, it's one thing that he understands it that way, another thing if our people naturally says it that way. Because what he understands (and what my parents understand) could be an influence of watching Taiwanese shows or talking with Mainlanders, etc. So I think we always have to do further questioning like that. --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 15:47, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

@Mar vin kaiser I repeated the same sentence above again to him this morning hours later, after he slept. he still said it meant next year and asked him if other 咱人 would also mean it that way and he agreed and I asked him if, wouldn't it mean New Year's? and he said, "無一定是New Year's啦" Mlgc1998 (talk) 22:43, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

@Mlgc1998: I think that's better. Thanks!I notice that our elders sometimes have the possibility of one having this opinion and one the other. Like depending on which elder I ask I get a different answer regarding a certain word. Quite an extra challenge in terms of preserving the language. --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 01:21, 16 August 2023 (UTC)