Module talk:ko

Korean wishlist

(Notifying Wyang, TAKASUGI Shinji, HappyMidnight): : Hi all.

I just wish to add my wishlist to the changes for handling of Korean, just to mention that these are wanted:

1. Verbs and adjectives with inflection tables in {{ko-new}}
2. Add topic categorisation to {{ko-new}}
3. Antonyms, alt forms, see also's, etc. missing in {{ko-new}}.
4. North Korean/South Korean variants in the header or alt forms?
5. Small fix - rm redundant empty lines if not etymology is provided in {{ko-new}}.
6. For Sino-Korean words, no definition in {{ko-etym-Sino}}, just the hanja, also when using {{ko-new}}.

If any of these are implemented I would appreciate it greatly. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 07:19, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

@Atitarev I've revamped and Luaified the {{ko-new}} template, and everything above except for #4 have been implemented. Also added some new features.

You can now have multiple etymologies; the second Hanja etymology can be specified with |2h= (with |2... being the prefix for any parameter for that etymology). The heading levels will be adjusted automatically.

Have a play with {{subst:ko-n||meaning 1||meaning 2|2also=또또|2also2=또또또또|2der=h|2h=漢字漢字|also=또|also2=또또|der=hd|h=漢字}} on a new Korean page. :) All parameters are listed in the source code for {{ko-new}}. Wyang (talk) 09:07, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

@Wyang: Great stuff, thank you! I have just tried creating new verbs, a great time-saver. What do you think, in general, about #4? I was more interested in handling frequent variant pairs like 역사 (yeoksa) and 력사 (ryeoksa), rather than words with different etymologies.

Also, this is unrelated but when you have a chance, could you add categorisations to the Thai {{th-new}}, please?

If I can add another item, in the Burmese pronunciation module, do you think it's a good idea to list the characters below or next to the romanisation like you did with the Thai and Khmer modules? I don't know if each Burmese symbol has a short value like those, though. E.g. in បណ្ណ (bɑnnɑɑ), the characters are listed: pṇ̥ṇ (Orthographic), p˘ṇ / p″˘-ṇ̥ṇ` (Phonemic). I find it helpful, since the actual characters are not always visible. (I use Sharmahd SC Unipad to decompose all diacritics and look them up). --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 09:20, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

@Atitarev Thanks. About #4, I'm not sure really. I suspect we may never have a North Korean content that is on par with the South Korean content, just by the nature of things, and I would even support if we decide to treat the Northern forms as alternative forms. There is probably a standard dictionary for the Northern language made by the North Korean government, but I'm not sure what it is. There are also differences in conjugation in the North, which we can try to include in our modules when there is more data and interest.

In the meantime, I've made the template/module even more intelligent by omitting the need for etymology when new -hada, -doeda verbs/adjectives are created, etc. e.g. {{subst:ko-n|v|to substitute; to replace}} for 갈음하다 (gareumhada). You can still specify the gloss for 갈음 (gareum) with |t1=....

Re Thai: I believe categorisation is already added to {{th-new}}, as well as {{km-new}}, in the form of |cat=.

For Burmese, two of the four schemes are based on orthography (MLCTS and ALA-LC), and the other two are based on pronunciation. Specifically, the ALA-LC is very much a transliteration, though not in the sense that there is a one-to-one map between characters, like the transliterations that we give for Thai and Khmer. For example, ခ (hka.) is transliterated as "kha" in the ALA-LC system, when a Thai- or Khmer-style transliteration would be just "kh". This is because the Burmese script is quite easily and quite reliably syllabified, unlike Thai and Khmer, where I've opted only for a strict transliteration as automatic syllabification is not possible. Other than this, the ALA-LC system is faithful to the script: ဖြည်း (hprany:) is phraññ‘″, with both the ASAT killer sign and the visarga reflected in the transliteration. It seems to me the ALA-LC scheme may be sufficient for people who are trying to break down the script (if they know what they are reading), but I may be wrong. @Mahagaja, any thoughts? Also, there is no need to add IPA to every Burmese word; we can just extract the BGN/PCGN romanisation from entries automatically and use it as |ts=, which I think would be a good idea, for the reason that the Burmese script isn't really phonetic.

Also, Anatoli, I have an auto-load script that automatically loads the texts {{subst:ko-new}}, {{subst:zh-new}}, ... in the editbox when it's a new creation page with Korean, Chinese, etc. characters in the title. It saves a bit of typing for me. If you would like to use it, you can add importScript('User:Wyang/autoLoad.js'); to your js page. Wyang (talk) 07:37, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

@Wyang: Thanks for your detailed response. It's all look great and I see with your points about Burmese and North Korean. You must have added Thai cat recently or something went wrong with me:). I plan to make many more North Korean entries like 력사 (ryeoksa) in the future, even if they are in this format. I might just keep it as a template.

The -hada part is great in the new module, perhaps adding a hanja into the etymology would be a bit too much to ask, like this: From {{ko-l|방송|放送}}. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 09:00, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

@Atitarev It is already feasible: for 'compound' etymologies like the -hada words, the parameters |c1=, |c2=, ... signify the different parts of the compound, and |t1=, |t2=, ... specify the glosses of the parts, and |hj1=, |hj2=, ... specify the Hanja of the parts. In this case, you can use {{subst:ko-n|v|to broadcast|hj1=放送}}. Multiple etymologies are also supported, with those of the second etymology simply |2c1=, |2c2=, |2t1=, |2t2=, |2hj1=, |2hj2= and so on. :) Wyang (talk) 09:13, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

Excellent. I guess this needs to be documented over time for other users. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 09:18, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

Burmese tangent

Moved to Module talk:my-pron. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 00:40, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

{{ko-new}} is hardcoded to support a maximum of 3 etymologies

https://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=예제&action=history —Fish bowl (talk) 07:59, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

Remove automated capitalisation of complete sentences

The difference between 저랑 결혼해 주세요 (jeo-rang gyeolhonhae juseyo) and 나랑 결혼해 줄래? (na-rang gyeolhonhae jul-lae?) is the question mark in the latter translation of [[will you marry me]]?, which capitalises the second sentences.

(Notifying TAKASUGI Shinji, HappyMidnight, Tibidibi, Quadmix77, Kaepoong, AG202): Can we now remove the automated capitalisation of sentences with punctuations ".", "!" or "?" and capitalise with "^" where necessary instead? Like this: {{t|ko|^나-랑 결혼해 줄-래?}}--Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 04:45, 18 March 2022 (UTC)

Sino-Korean prefixes

(Notifying TAKASUGI Shinji, HappyMidnight, Tibidibi, Quadmix77, Kaepoong, AG202): , @Fish bowl: Hi. Please consider using Sino-Korean etymologies for Category:Korean words by prefix, similar to how Category:Korean words by suffix works. To name a couple candidates prefixes: 반(反) (ban) 불(不) (bul), etc.

Also, terms with mixed etymologies, such as 알바생 (albasaeng), with Sino-Korean suffixes, could use a similar handling.--Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 03:32, 7 June 2022 (UTC)