Module talk:gu-IPA/testcases

@DerekWinters Hi, could you add some more testcases? I'd like to get this up and running, and want to make sure it's accurate. —Aryaman^{A (मुझसे बात करें • योगदान)} 22:52, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

@AryamanA You know, while I can read IPA decently (except for the hundreds of variations of 'a'), vowel length often escapes me, and so does other small qualities. Could I just send in some voice recordings? DerekWinters (talk) 00:17, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

I'll be as clear and precise as you could ever hope for. Also, often I've been told that my (Mumbai) Gujarati sounds more "shuddh" than other people's (particularly those from Gujarat). But yeah, a lot of them (esp in the US) pronounce things really interestingly, and especialllly Patels and Kathiawadis, but also people from Mehsana. DerekWinters (talk) 00:22, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

@DerekWinters: I am really bad at transcribing IPA too, but if you want you can upload them to Commons (and then they can go on Gujarati entries too). I know Forvo has some Gujarati recordings already.

Maybe one day we'll have more Gujarati editors and we can try implementing different dialect pronunciations. —Aryaman^{A (मुझसे बात करें • योगदान)} 00:26, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

@DerekWinters: /ɑ̈/ might be too precise, we can just use /ɑ/ like in Hindi and Marathi. (It has like four variants too which might confuse people) —Aryaman^{A (मुझसे बात करें • योगदान)} 00:32, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

Sounds good. DerekWinters (talk) 00:33, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

@AryamanA Also, what r do we use? Bengali's and Assamese's resembles the English one (just not retroflex like in GenAm), but Hindi, Guj, etc. what is it? DerekWinters (talk) 00:36, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

@DerekWinters: /ɾ/, the "voiced alveolar flap". It's like the Spanish /r/ but the tongue is more forward and so it doesn't really roll as much. —Aryaman^{A (मुझसे बात करें • योगदान)} 00:41, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

More Testcases

@AryamanA I've added more testcases here. I've ignored vowel length. Please check [[1]] for my lovely recordings because I can't seem to tell vowel length or anything else really. Here's a horrendous children's story on youtube (if this helps). DerekWinters (talk) 18:02, 22 July 2018 (UTC)

@DerekWinters: Unfortunately it's just me for now since Wyang left... Anyway, a question about stress: is primary stress always on the first syllable of the word? —Aryaman^{A (मुझसे बात करें • योगदान)} 00:57, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

@AryamanA: I want to say yes, there might be instances where it doesn't, but I want to say yes. DerekWinters (talk) 02:32, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

@DerekWinters: Well it surely looks like it can't be worse than Hindi... Implemented for now. —Aryaman^{A (मुझसे बात करें • योगदान)} 02:35, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

@AryamanA: Also, just remembered something. Gujarati definitely has vowel length because when I went to learn Bengali from friends the first thing I had to unlearn was make vowels long. Can't remember which ones I did long other than આ, which I definitely had to learn how to pronounce short. DerekWinters (talk) 02:37, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

@DerekWinters: You speak Mumbai Gujarati right? It could be a feature of your dialect, because the papers I've looked it (which aren't very many) say that Gujarati has no vowel length contrast. I recently learned how to use Praat for phonological analysis so I'll try to see your recordings anyways. —Aryaman^{A (मुझसे बात करें • योगदान)} 02:47, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

@DerekWinters: You definitely contrast vowel length. In અરજદાર (arajdār) the schwas are ~0.15 seconds long and the ā is ~0.3 seconds. No doubt about it. —Aryaman^{A (मुझसे बात करें • योगदान)} 02:50, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

@AryamanA: See I've always heard that, and honestly I'm not sure what to think. Also yes Mumbai Gujarati. So 1, section 4.7 in the table of contents suggests vowel length (unfortunately that chapter is not available to actually see what he has to say). Also, certainly ɪ and ʊ exist separately from i and u, and I can attest to that very strongly, however vowel length in standard gujarati is still questionable. DerekWinters (talk) 17:17, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

For example, no one ever pronounces હિંદી as /hindi/ but as /hɪndi/. DerekWinters (talk) 17:24, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

@DerekWinters: It seems vowel quality is definitely contrasted (but still not sure why BBC Gujarati mixes it up), but vowel length is more contentious. Wow that is an amazing book. I'm a little busy right now but I'll see what I can find later today. —Aryaman^{A (मुझसे बात करें • योगदान)} 17:41, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

@DerekWinters Interesting discussion...Shodhganga is not easy to navigate. Chapter 4. Section 7 starts on page 76. For the entire thesis: Volume 1 Volume 2 Kutchkutch (talk) 09:15, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

@Kutchkutch: Thank you! I'll go through them soon. DerekWinters (talk) 04:50, 26 July 2018 (UTC)