Category talk:Ancient Greek terms suffixed with -ής

adverbs ok

Eru @Erutuon:, you are a πολύτροπος magician. You made all these Cat:-ής), adverbs OK! i checked all contructed adverbs at perseus, they are all fine. These are a bit difficult:

• ἀσκηθής - no info on ἀσκηθῶς grammatically correct, but not attested?
• νημερτής - only uncontructed νημερτέως, not found contructed νημερτῶς
• Τριτογενής I am puzzled. should genetivus be τριτογενοῦς as in μονογενοῦς? Is nt it adjective too? Why is it 1st decl? Τριτογένεια noun ok (it has plural?)

My ancient greek is poor, and i am insecure at inflections. It would be lovely if each template had a catch-word, probalby similar to the corresponding greek-template-word, and somehow familiar to euopean users. e.g. εὐγενής ευγενής eugenic. sarri.greek (talk) 06:24, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

@Sarri.greek: Yes, ἀσκηθῶς is hypothetically correct, even though it's never used, at least not in the works on Greek Wikisource (see this search). We typically don't try to determine which forms are actually attested, because that is an awful lot of work for every entry in the category of Ancient Greek lemmas.

As for νημερτής, it seems to be a purely Epic word, or perhaps poetic, though the Doric form νᾱμερτής is used in the choruses of Attic drama. The uncontracted νημερτέως is the Epic adverbial form, and the Attic adverb νημερτῶς is never used because the word is never used in Attic.

You're quite right that the genitive of Τριτογενής is Τρῑτογενοῦς (Trītogenoûs). The table showed "first declension" because someone had put in the incorrect form Τρῑτογενοῦ (Trītogenoû) into the template {{grc-decl}}. So the template thought that it was a first-declension masculine like ποιητής, ποιητοῦ.

You can see the list of nominative and genitive endings recognized by the Ancient Greek noun declension template {{grc-decl}}, and masculine and feminine or neuter endings recognized by the Ancient Greek adjective declension template {{grc-adecl}}, at Module:grc-decl/decl/staticdata/documentation. The list is not particularly helpful because it uses short codes for declension types and there are no examples, but I can fix that. — Eru·tuon 20:50, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

Thank you @Erutuon: You gave me useful links to study. About attestation: you know, all previous years, when i was a user, a visitor, I never knew the tables were automatic at this extent. I thought that they were actually taken from a specific grammar-source. Also the pronunciations. All these templates are magical, save so much time. But I feel, in the end, there could be a 'retouche'. If your team ever wishes to get feedback from regular users, I can write down for you one or two thoughts. The tables are a major asset for wiktionary. Also the lemmatopoeisis of each grammatical type. sarri.greek (talk) 06:06, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

@Sarri.greek: I'd be interested in suggestions. You can post them in Module talk:grc-decl. That's where most discussion regarding {{grc-decl}} and {{grc-adecl}} happens. @JohnC5 and I did a lot of work on the module a few months ago, and I'm working on further improvements right now in Module:grc-decl/sandbox. — Eru·tuon 07:00, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

This and Category:Ancient Greek words suffixed with -ης

@Per utramque cavernam: In response to your moving some words from that category to this: is there a semantic difference between the two accent types? I haven't discerned one. I propose that suffixes be given without accent unless 1. accent is unambiguously associated with some other feature (semantics, inflectional category) or 2. words with the suffix are only accented in one way. — Eru·tuon 22:20, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

@Erutuon: I really have no idea. If it's purely allomorphic, then I agree with you that there's 1) no need to make a distinction 2) no real need to give the accent (but if -ής is the original accentuation, and -ης an allomorph in compounds, for example, I might prefer the former).

The question might be more complex than that, however. And even if it's only that, we'd still have to explain the allomorphic distribution somewhere. So if you want to move everything to -ης, I'm not opposed to it, but I think it's a bit premature.

I've got the same problem with -της and -τής, by the way. I seem to remember that prosody is a factor, but that it doesn't explain everything. --Per utramque cavernam (talk) 22:52, 22 January 2018 (UTC)