Talk:beide

German declension

• Otto Lyon states in his Deutsche Grammatik: "Früher konnte man sagen: Er faßte mich mit beider Hand (jetzt: mit beiden Händen), er umschlang mich mit beidem Arm (jetzt: mit beiden Armen); heute darf man diese Einzahl nicht mehr anwenden." That is, according to him there once was a masculine and a feminine singular form.
• In [books.google.com/books?id=mZ5QAAAAcAAJ&pg=RA3-PA21&dq=%22beidem+arm%22] there is: "Sie fiehl ihm umb den Hals mit beydem Arm und küßte / Mit Thränen sein Gesicht, und hielt sich fest an ihn[.]".
• [books.google.com/books?id=7pNEAAAAcAAJ&pg=RA1-PA12&dq=%22beidem+arm%22 Grimms' Deutsches Wörterbuch] cites more examples: "auf beidem ort", "unter beider gestalt, brots und weins halten", "von beider partei", "beide hand" (Opitz), "mit beiden arm" (could be the example from above).
• M. Josuam Opitius (Opitz?) wrote a book with the title "Von beider Gestalt des Hochwirdigen Sacraments." Google also gives a preview with the example "in beider Gestalt" but when opening the book it doesn't goes to the example, so there's something broken.
• [books.google.com/books?id=_3FiAAAAcAAJ&pg=PT46&dq=%22beider+gestalt%22 Martin Luther's Eine bericht an einen guten freund von Beider gestalt des Sacraments auffs Bischoffs zu Meissen mandat] has "Beider gestalt" in the title and "beider gestalt" inside the book.
• [books.google.com/books?id=ncqnX9G8RCoC&pg=PT218&dq=%22beides+Geschlecht%22 Albertus Magnus' and Waltherus Ryff's Thierbuch] has "beides geschlecht der Wallfisch".
• [books.google.com/books?id=bJIAAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA252&dq=%22beides+Geschlecht%22] has "beides Geschlecht"

So masculine and feminine singular are attestable and so is adjectival and non-substantival neuter usage, ie. neuter usage not as a pronoun but before a noun. -04:33, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

• The entry know has some examples, but misses a declension table.
• Adelung mentions a (dialectal) declension "beede, bode, beyde" similar to "zween, zwo, zwey", that is like "beede Männer, bode Frauen, beide/beyde Kinder". Maybe it's also attestable in regular German. But "beede" is also another form of "beide" regardless of gender as in "beede Brautpersonen", "beeden Brautpersonen", "beede Damen", "beede Thiere", "Von beeden fürstlichen Fräulein, Agnes und Anna Herzoginnen zu Wirtemberg". So simple results for "beede" and "beide"/"beyde" don't attest "beede, bode, beide/beyde".
• As for the spelling "Beide":
  • In older German its not a mistake, however older German might now be dated.
  • 2011 rules, §58 (5) E4: "Wenn der Schreibende zum Ausdruck bringen will, dass das Zahladjektiv substantivisch gebraucht ist, kann er es nach § 57(1) auch großschreiben, zum Beispiel: Sie strebte etwas ganz Anderes an. Die Einen sagen dies, die Anderen das. Die Meisten stimmten seiner Meinung zu." According to dictionaries, "beide" is both a pronoun and a numeral. So a spelling like "Christus und Petrus, die Beiden (= the two) gingen über Land" instead of "Christus und Petrus, die beiden gingen über Land" should be correct by the rules. Spellings like "Anderen" and "Beiden" might however be nonstandard.

-17:04, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

• Several other older grammars and dictionaries mention "beede, bode, beyde" or "beede, bode, beide". Some might mention it with doubt like they have ever seen or heard these forms, but have heard that these forms shall exist. Anyway, that's no usage.
• In a review of "Emilie, oder die belohnte Tugend in der Geschichte der Fräulein von Melvile, aus dem Englischen übersetzt, 2 Theile. Nürnberg, 1768" it is said that the translator "deklinirt beede, bode, beyde, wie zween, two, zwey" (the reviewer criticises this). So there could be a German usage---but maybe the translator just uses "beede" and the reviewer misinterprets this?
• [books.google.com/books?id=x5xsvjox33cC&pg=PA184&dq=%22boden+Händen%22 System einer vollständigen medicinischen Polizey (1780)] has "mit boden Händen", "diese boden Verbesserungen", "die beeden Körper", "In beeden Fällen", "der beiden Geschlechter", "beide Naselöcher", "Wasser oder Wein, beides kalt", "ohne beides anzuzeigen", and (or but?) also "durch beide Röhre"
• [books.google.com/books?id=V-laAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA95&dq=%22boden+Händen%22] has "von boden Händen", "beeden Füsse", "beeden Knien"
• [books.google.com/books?id=ymdTAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA2929&dq=%22boden+Händen%22] has "boden Händen", "Beyde Ringe", "dise beyde metallene Bildlein", "die beeden Postumos" (plural of a word or name), "beeden von Basel" (refering to two male persons), and also "zween Edelgesteine"

Thus, "beede, bode, beide/beyde" is attestable. It might be dated, but maybe it's still used colloquially, dialectally or regionally? -20:41, 10 May 2016 (UTC)