Wiktionary talk:Votes/pl-2019-05/Lemmatize Japanese wago words at kana spellings

If the definitions will ultimately be reproduced at all entries with the ja-see template, is this just about where to keep the surrounding information (etymology, derivatives, etc)? ─ ReconditeRodent « talk · contribs » 22:09, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

@ReconditeRodent: Yes, currently. (Our entry layout makes it difficult to reproduce all information, so {{ja-see}} currently only reproduces the definitions.) --Dine2016 (talk) 02:24, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

Thank you. Also, are there any examples of what a wago entry would look like? ─ ReconditeRodent « talk · contribs » 14:08, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

@ReconditeRodent: Sorry for the long delay. くらい is an example of wago lemmatized at the kana spelling. --Dine2016 (talk) 10:41, 22 June 2019 (UTC)

Close

@Chuck Entz Hi. Does this sum up as 4-3-2 (Option 1 - Option 2 - Oppose), or should each option be counted separately (Option 1: 4-2, Option 2: 3-1)? --Dine2016 (talk) 10:37, 22 June 2019 (UTC)

@Atitarev Hi. Do you know how this should be counted? --Dine2016 (talk) 03:48, 28 June 2019 (UTC)

I am a little confused about the vote options but I think opting for one makes you opposing the other, no? It wouldn't make sense to support or oppose both options and it's sufficient to vote in one. Correct me if I'm wrong. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 03:52, 28 June 2019 (UTC)

Thanks.

@Metaknowledge Do you have any idea? --Dine2016 (talk) 05:14, 28 June 2019 (UTC)

This vote was terribly designed, and it failed to clarify consensus. I have no interest in closing it, because of the arbitrariness that was baked into it, and I don't see what the point was anyway — the Japanese editor community shouldn't litigate these issues by vote but instead by discussion. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 01:02, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

The vote design is suboptimal: it should ideally have had a dedicated oppose section for each option. Nonetheless, thank you for the vote, which created an opportunity to collect input and can be treated as a high-visibility request for comment.

If the closure were made right now, it should be counted on a per-option basis, by my lights. That is made a little difficult by the late coming votes since while these do present evidence of consensus or its lack, they are late and if I counted them in, I could be accused of fishing for the results. I have extended the vote by two months to give plenty of time to collect more input. --Dan Polansky (talk) 07:55, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

@Dine2016: You seem to support both options, per "I'm actually ok with any of the three outcomes". What do you think of posting an explicit support to both options? --Dan Polansky (talk) 08:16, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

@Suzukaze-c: What do you think of posting an explicit support to the 2nd option if you support that option as well as the first one? --Dan Polansky (talk) 08:18, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

I like 1 more than 2. —Suzukaze-c◇◇ 01:18, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

I don't think it's possible to support both options. Option 1: Lemmatize all wago at kana. Option 2: Lemmatize only rare/archaic wago at kana.

So, やま (yama) is not rare/archaic kana spelling for wago 山(やま) (yama), if somebody says I support both, what are they voting for? --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 01:47, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

A straightforward question to "support both" people is, where should be the Japanese lemma, at やま or at 山? --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 02:28, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

Support both means that you support both alternative policies. Like, someone may support the policy of driving on the left as well as the policy of driving on the right, but they oppose the policy of driving anywhere one feels like. Similarly, someone may support multiple logo proposals, but obviously, only one logo can win. --Dan Polansky (talk) 20:47, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

Inconsistency option 1 would introduce

@Eirikr Lemmatizing wago at kana may introduce some inconsistencies, because compounds can be formed from words of any origin. For example, please look up words beginning with むらさき in any large kokugo dictionary. The second element of the compound may be either wago or kango. It doesn't look consistent if we lemmatize "wago + wago" at kana but "wago + kango" at kanji, as the first element would be inconsistently spelled "むらさき" and "紫". --Dine2016 (talk) 09:02, 23 September 2019 (UTC)

@Dine2016: Cheers. Now that you're rolling out {{ja-see}} (a huge thank you for that, BTW), I'm much less worried about this issue, as that template offers much better usability and discoverability than was possible previously. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 17:55, 23 September 2019 (UTC)