User talk:AryamanA/2015

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Again, welcome! —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 18:12, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

Copyright violation

You seem to have been copying definitions from other dictionaries. This is against our terms of service and possibly illegal. Please stop! Equinox ◑ 20:49, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

Sorry! If I see a definition in another dictionary, how do I go about putting them in? Should I rewrite them or use a different source? Also, where is Webster's 1913 dictionary available? Again, sorry for the mistakes. Edit: http://machaut.uchicago.edu/websters, is this it? Aryamanarora (talk) 14:44, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

Yep. Equinox ◑ 23:02, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

criophore

Why did you remove the related terms section and the French section? SemperBlotto (talk) 20:58, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

I did? I didn't notice, I'll add it right away. Sorry! --Aryamanarora (talk) 20:59, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

I don't see a French revision in the article history... are you sure I removed anything? Aryamanarora (talk) 21:00, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

You have just added it back. SemperBlotto (talk) 21:02, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

That is what I was just about to tell you - it was an edit conflict. Aryamanarora (talk) 21:03, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

Copying of example sentences

Copy and pasting example sentences from [1] is a copyright violation (the dictionary is copyrighted in 1989) and against Wiktionary policies. DTLHS (talk) 15:49, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

Sorry! I seem to have a problem with copyright violations, I see know that it is still copyrighted. I will clean up my mess. Aryamanarora (talk) 15:52, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

I have a question – is it okay to reference the dictionary? Aryamanarora (talk) 15:56, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

It's fine to reference dictionaries. Definitions can't be copyrighted, but the exact wording of a dictionary entry can be. DTLHS (talk) 15:57, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

A couple of cautions

Before you spend too much time developing languages from works of fiction, you should look through the Beer Parlour month subpages for a discussion we had on the subject within the past year. The upshot of it was that most of the Klingon content we had was removed due to copyright concerns. I'm not sure about where Tolkien's work stands in that regard, but you should definitely check. Also User:-sche would probably be a good person to ask for advice, since he implemented that decision.

Likewise, before you spend too much time on "derived terms" categorization, you should be aware of a failed experiment along those lines that revolved around a template called "derv" (see Template talk:derv for a sample of the rather contentious debate over it, and Category:English derived terms to see some of the remnants of the old system). It was before my time, so I'm not familiar with the details, but it would be a good idea to discuss your ideas at the Beer parlour for advice and consensus in order to avoid the pitfalls of the previous one.

Anytime I see someone come in and start to seriously rearrange things the way you're doing, it makes me very nervous: our infrastructure is very complex, and even very good ideas can run aground on the need for consensus in a wiki such as this. Chuck Entz (talk) 21:36, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

Codecat told me about the derived terms categorization, so I understand that. For Quenya, I'm using an online dictionary called Eldamo, and it is licensed under Creative Commons 4.0, so I think there won't be any copyright infringement - if one person is able to document around 5-6k words for Quenya, and then release it freely, than Wiktionary should be able to do the same. As you can see on this talk page, though, I do have a bad history with naïve copyright infringement, so I'll stop indexing Quenya words until I'm sure that there is no chance of infringement. Aryamanarora (talk) 22:19, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

Hindi genders

Hello,

Re: diff. Does Hindi really have a neuter gender?? I think it can only be masculine or neuter feminine or some hard to determine gender or can be both masculine and feminine. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 12:30, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

I agree, but it appears that the only such label in the category tree is neuter nouns. Perhaps we could add a label to the module called "masculine and feminine nouns"? Aryamanarora (talk) 12:32, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

Is it even necessary to have categories for nouns by gender? —CodeCat 12:53, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

@Aryamanarora In translations from English, you can use ..|m|f|... one gender after another, in noun entries, |g2= for the second gender, only if there are really two genders. If you just don't know, leave the gender unmarked. I recently saw a Hindi dictionary with good gender marking, so I'm sure they do exist for the majority of nouns. Borrowings are known to have variations in genders. You can also do tests on the web, e.g. "नया + noun" or "नई + noun". Thus, पेन is a feminine, even if dictionaries may not tell you that, because the combination "नई पेन" (new pen) is very common and नई is a feminine form of नया. Sometimes it works to see, which adjective, masculine or feminine works with which noun. Shabdkosh dictionary often (not always) marks genders too. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 12:59, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

@CodeCat The situation with Hindi genders is somewhat similar with the Dutch, where the gender is a bit hard to determine or can be both m and f but there is no convention to use "c" (common) or "n" (neuter) in such cases. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 13:02, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

Please see my changes to जीन्स (jīns). It's a feminine. I got the gender from Shabdkosh.

BTW, the automatic Hindi transliteration is not perfect here. It doesn't always drop "a" when necessary. There are some failed test cases in Module:hi-translit/testcases just to show that the module doesn't always cope. You can still use manual (hard-coded) transliteration, as long as it's standard (you can preview and copy removing "a" where necessary). E.g. फ़ावड़ा (fāvṛā) should be "fāvṛā", not "fāvaṛā". --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 13:22, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

Yep, I see. I use [2] and [3] for genders and definitions. They don't have many colloquial terms though, so I see how Shabdkosh can be useful. The first one is also licensed under Creative Commons, so we can use sentences from it. Thank for the explanations! Good to see that I'm not the only one working on Hindi.Aryamanarora (talk) 14:54, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

ναζίρ

Hello Aryamanarora. As a proper noun, shouldn't ναζίρ (nazír) be moved to Ναζίρ (Nazír)? — I.S.M.E.T.A. 23:30, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

Not sure, I don't speak Greek at all. I based the definition off of Greek Wikipedia, as there were several people with that surname. Aryamanarora (talk) 01:23, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

Aryaman, you shouldn't create entries in languages you know nothing about. That's how errors like this happen. The lowercase is an Ancient Greek word that appears to mean "Nazirite", but I'm not sure if it's declinable. The uppercase is the (modern) Greek surname. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 01:58, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

@Aryamanarora, Metaknowledge: Thank you, both. — I.S.M.E.T.A. 13:38, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

"I based the definition off of [fill in the blank] Wikipedia". If I had a dollar for every time that strategy has gone horribly, horribly wrong, I could retire... Chuck Entz (talk) 14:00, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ @Metaknowledge: I don't think ναζίρ (nazír) is declinable. Maybe this will help. — I.S.M.E.T.A. 14:08, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

My Greek is still awful, but that looks like it's in the nominative singular, and therefore unhelpful. I just suspect that it's indeclinable because I think Hebrew borrowings usually are, but I still wouldn't be brave enough to create the entry. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 14:13, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

@Metaknowledge: "[You] just suspect that it's indeclinable because [you] think Hebrew borrowings usually are[.]" — That was also my thinking. — I.S.M.E.T.A. 14:27, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

@Metaknowledge: This "Koine Greek lexicon" also suggests that the word is indeclinable. — I.S.M.E.T.A. 14:39, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

---

Thanks for explaining the policy! I'll stay away from Greek from now on. Aryamanarora (talk) 19:20, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

Hindi contents at Wiktionary

Hi Aryaman,

Thanks for your Hindi edits! Just remember that Hindi presence at Wiktionary is ridiculously low for the number of speakers. Hindi lemmas currently stand at 3,492 total and many basic, everyday words are still missing, many are badly formatted (some don't get to the category because of missing templates). One person can make a lot of difference in that. We have very small languages with tens of thousands words. I am not asking you to make many thousands of Hindi entries but just be aware of this. :) --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 22:46, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

I know, it's kind of sad - some proto-languages have more words than Hindi on Wiktionary. I have plans to get a good dictionary, but I can't do much because I'm still a student - my mornings are full of classes. Maybe one day we'll have a decent Hindi dictionary here! Thanks for the motivation :) -Aryamanarora (talk) 22:59, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

I want to add that I'm appreciating it as well. I bet Hindi is among the worst offenders in speaker-to-lemma ratio around here. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 01:22, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

Particles मत and न

Hi Aryaman,

Do you think you can add Hindi particles मत (mat) and न (na)? --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 01:30, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

Yep! Just did. Aryamanarora (talk) 01:50, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

Thanks! There's some grammar difference between the two, perhaps usage notes could be used, could be used (otherwise the examples you gave are fine). Also, न is also a letter of the alphabet and a final particle, something like "isn't it?". --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 02:08, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

You're welcome! Whoops, I forgot about the usage of न as a final particle. I'll add usage notes. Aryamanarora (talk) 02:10, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

Don't forget to add the letter न :) --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 02:21, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

Appendix:Proto-Indo-Aryan/sphuṭyati

Is this not just Sanskrit? —CodeCat 23:13, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

I don't think so - see [4] - it is an Indo-Aryan term. It's also listed in my Oxford Hindi-English dictionary as the Old-Indo-Aryan root of फूटना (phūṭnā, “to burst”). Aryamanarora (talk) 23:15, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

The Sanskrit term is phuṭaṇu - which I think is फुटणु. Aryamanarora (talk) 23:19, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

That dictionary is over a century old. How is it reliable? —CodeCat 23:19, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

Well, it also happens to be the only Indo-Aryan dictionary I can access. The Oxford Hindi-English dictionary is much newer (1990's), and lists the same thing. Edit: It isn't a century old. The website lists "Copyright © 1962-1985 by Sir Ralph Turner"'. Aryamanarora (talk) 23:22, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

Sometimes a new dictionary copies an old one, which is out of copyright. The year of copyright doesn't prove anything. Look at Wiktionary and how it has a lot of content from Webster 1913. Equinox ◑ 03:05, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

To be fair though, about 80% of that content was yours, Equinox. --Stubborn Pen (talk) 00:54, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

So what? We are very definitely not the first dictionary to absorb work from older lexicographers. W1913 did it itself. Equinox ◑ 07:31, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

@CodeCat It appears that it is actually Sanskrit, Codecat. Sorry for any confusion I caused, I'll go ahead and add {{speedy}} to it. —Aryamanarora ^{(मुझसे बात करो)} 02:00, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

Some resources you might like

https://hi.wiktionary.org/wiki/साँचा:शब्दसागर - Entirely in Hindi, but the best dictionary I've seen out there. Wonderfully done with great sources too. Literally a सागर. Also, many words have several alternative spellings, so quick google-searches will give you the most used form, but the dictionary will often point to the main form itself.

https://hi.wiktionary.org/wiki/हिन्दी_शब्दावली - English/Hindi. Trust very very very warily. Half of the words are bullshit or invented right there. In fact, I would look for at least 6 verifiable sources for any of these before believing them. Still worthwhile.

http://computerhindi.blogspot.com/ - This is bilingual but the some of the words are also clearly created. Just double check them.

http://gujaratilexicon.com/ - Outstandingly superb Gujarati-Gujarati section. English-Gujarati needs some work and Gujarati-English is tolerable. But the majority of words are only in the G/G part. Just look up a little Gujarati grammar before adding words. Also, many words have several alternative spellings, so quick google-searches will give you the most used form. Also really good at looking up Marathi and Hindi words in the Marathi-Gujarati and Hindi-Gujarati dictionaries that may not appear in other dictionaries.

http://www.englishnepalidictionary.com/ - Great for Nepali words

http://www.xobdo.org/dic/fire - Wonderful for Asami and several other languages spoken near where Asami is like Bodo, Mising, Garo, Hmar, etc. Kinda slow (rather slow). Lots of words given for Asami, so be sure to look through and find the ones that aren't direct Sanskrit loans that are never used. Also, triple check the sources for those other non-Asami languages.

http://www.steets.net/ - Decent for Sindhi in the Devanagari script. I know next to nothing about the language though, so I don't know if it's at all accurate.

http://www.khandbahale.org/ - Coverage of some minority languages. Handle with care and caution.

http://olam.in/ - fantasically clean site. Naturally, the Malayalam/Malayalam part is much better, but the English/Malayalam part is pretty solid too.

I'll tell you if I find any more. DerekWinters (talk) 06:41, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

Thanks! I've also found some more resources, but these are really great!

http://dsal.uchicago.edu/dictionaries/ - 23 different Indian languages are covered here.

http://shabdkosh.com/ - Entirely contributor made, but still reliable. Also has genders.

I also have a paper dictionary: The Oxford Hindi-English Dictionary. Probably the most reliable one I can get.

Thanks a ton! —Aryamanarora ^{(मुझसे बात करो)} 14:56, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

Be careful with the dsal.uchicago ones. I tried it with Kashmiri and it was total बकवास. The शब्दसागर and gujaratilexicon provide gender as well. And the Oxford Hindi-English must be wonderful. I should probably invest in it. DerekWinters (talk) 21:57, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

Yah, the Sindhi one on DSAL is also untrustworthy. I go the Oxford one used on Amazon - great price! —Aryamanarora ^{(मुझसे बात करो)} 22:04, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

Damn, I'll definitely have to invest now. DerekWinters (talk) 22:40, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

ज़रूर! —Aryamanarora ^{(मुझसे बात करो)} 23:24, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

Thanks...

... for the links on my talk page. I'm a really bad autodidact, but I'll try anyway! --Fsojic (talk) 19:46, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

No problem! Ask me if you have any questions about Devanagari. User:DerekWinters is also proficient in it. —Aryamanarora ^{(मुझसे बात करो)} 20:11, 22 December 2015 (UTC)