Talk:start

do we say start with something, or start by something ?

Either is possible. English normally uses "start with" when the next word is a noun denoting an item that will be used or changed, and almost always uses "start by" when the next word is a gerund identifying a continuous action to be performed. --EncycloPetey 04:26, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Etymology 3

Is this really a separate etymology? I always assumed that start in the sense of the tail or rump of an animal was just a euphemistic way of using the sense of beginning. E.g. "red rump" would be too crude, so you just say redstart . I guess if the primary meaning is tail rather than rump, though, that explanation wouldnt make a lot of sense. Soap (talk) 19:01, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

however, i want to point out also that stark naked was originally start naked. I didnt just base my assumption on the words for birds. —Soap— 14:12, 17 October 2022 (UTC)

Usage note

Would a native speaker please describe possibly in the Usage notes if it can ever be used interchangeably with "leave" (i.e. leaving for a destination, starting from home)? I tried googling it but to no avail. Thank you in advance. Adam78 (talk) 23:33, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

I don't completely understand what you are asking. You could say "we started for home", which implies that you left the place you were already in, but only because you logically can't leave without starting a journey of some kind. Equinox ◑ 23:36, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

For example, I noticed in the dictionary this example phrase: "the trip starts in Vienna". It seems "start" can be used if the subject is a trip (not a person) or if the action of starting is like beginning, not any actual locomotion (because the trip itself does not move). I'm just trying to grasp what makes it possible for "start" to be used in one case but not in another (e.g. "he started from home at 8:30"). Adam78 (talk) 00:02, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

My Chambers Dictionary has two different senses covering these two cases: 1. to begin, commence; 2. to set forth on a journey, race, career. Of course, "the trip starts in Vienna" is like "the film starts at 10 o'clock", because it's naming a (space/time) point where the thing begins. But in my opinion you could treat the person the same way, by imagining some missing words: "he started [TRAVELLING AWAY] from home at 8". Equinox ◑ 01:13, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

All right. So there might not be a very distinct line between them in some senses, only a difference in aspect or focus. (?) Thank you! Adam78 (talk) 02:13, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

Yeah, when I started talking about "the space/time point where the thing begins", I immediately thought "grammatical aspect", but I'm not very knowledgeable about that: maybe some on WT:ID could help you further. Equinox ◑ 02:19, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

make a start

make a start: to begin to do something, especially a task of some sort
We should make a start on the decorating.
Microsoft® Encarta® 2009

--Backinstadiums (talk) 10:23, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

RFV discussion: October 2022–February 2023

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start

Rfv-sense: "tail". The NED (the first edition of the OED) notes that there is no direct evidence for the "tail" sense beyond Middle English with the following comment:

1919, “start, n.¹”, in James A. H. Murray et al., editors, A New English Dictionary on Historical Principles (Oxford English Dictionary), volume IX, Part 1, London: Clarendon Press, →OCLC, page 128:

The explanation ‘tail’ is given in many dictionaries from the 17th c. onwards, and in many modern dialect glossaries, but app. only as an assumed general or primary meaning accounting for the specific senses and the use in redstart. Evidence of any modern currency of sense 1 is wanting.

Subsequent editions of the OED see no need to alter this evaluation. Of course, it's entirely possible that we may be able to find something that the OED has passed by, but I don't see the prognosis as being particularly positive. Hazarasp (parlement · werkis) 20:00, 17 October 2022 (UTC)

It's also used in start naked, which .... yes it's a redlink, but .... I was planning to get around to creating and citing it soon, as it's claimed to be the source of the modern stark naked. This is where my knowledge ends and my speculation begins, though, as I wonder if it was all along a euphemism for rump, not for tail specifically, hence its application to both humans and birds. It would be in line with some other languages such as Finnish, where the word perse perä can berefer to a human's bottom or the base of something, and I think Nahuatl which also uses the same basic morpheme for the buttocks and for "beginning, start" (though offhand I dont know what that morpheme is or if it can stand alone).

It's possible that some or all of the above can be true, but that the word start in its standalone form lost that meaning long ago, and it only shows up in etymologies. —Soap— 15:38, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

There is no doubt that start naked is attestable, but as you note, this means nothing for the attestability of standalone start (“tail”). As for that word's relation to start (“to begin, commence”), there doesn't appear to be a direct link (as demonstrated differing vocalisms of German stürzen, Sterz), though both words may go back to the same PIE root. Hazarasp (parlement · werkis) 23:20, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

MWOnline calls start naked "a dialectal variant of stark-naked".

See also blackstart, clubstart, whitestart DCDuring (talk) 00:38, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

MWOnline calls start naked "a dialectal variant of stark-naked".

Well of course it is synchronically, but etymologically it appears to be the original form. As for the animal names you listed, blackstart and whitestart are probably analogical to redstart; clubstart may be too, in a case of proportional analogy; redtail:redstart; *clubtail (“stoat”):clubstart, as it is not particularly old. Hazarasp (parlement · werkis) 04:50, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

RFV Failed, no post-1300 cites. Ioaxxere (talk) 02:53, 14 February 2023 (UTC)